As to Knoppix's wall of text (<3), I appreciate you saying what you did.
I know all of us have stuff going on that makes it not always easy to be perfect 100% of the time (on time, prepared, videos watched, no distractions, etc etc). That's okay. What is not okay is making it a habit.
It is hard to find a balance between being understanding, and condoning behavior that is not helpful to the group. I have never envied a raid leader's position in this regard.
I will come out and say I do not enjoy negative overtones, because not only do they make me uncomfortable, but I also find them to be more harmful than helpful. Try to keep your criticism constructive, and remember that we are all learning and this is just how it is with every raid. I've been raiding for years and these types of growing pains are normal and to be expected. Give people the benefit of the doubt. We are all working hard. We are all working out the kinks. And always be mindful that people will be infinitely more receptive of feedback when it is given in a friendly manner. I love feedback. I love suggestions. I think like most of us, I enjoy wow so much BECAUSE it is challenging, and the learning process is part of this.
So that being said, I think it is awesome that we have the group that
we do; I enjoy playing with all of you and am very excited at the
progress that we have made so far. With a little more preparation and
focus (which definitely includes myself), I think we can really blow
through some content.
I agree with everything you said Karli and I appreciate the response. Thank you fo filling in the holes in my response as well. You are 100% right we are all learning and people being negative because people mess up is not going to be tolerated nor is it appropriate...now if you do it over and over after people have tried to nicely help you, well then that is a different story.
As to Saedo's reply, I agree with you instead of just pulling and pulling we do need to coordinate alot more and alot of the pulling quickly is my fault because I do not want to repeat past experiences of taking 30 min between every pull, 30 min and people stop paying attention if you are just talking and talking. Something that will greatly reduce the time for coordination is watching the videos on your free time. If you truly care like I do you will watch them in advance, I am watching them on my breaks I take during work. I will admit I do sometimes forget some of the strat and I apologize, people forget but if you watch it enough times you should have an easier time remembering. I am going to be putting in more time for raid strats and I hope you all do as well so when raid time comes we can have our coordination discussions in a quick but meaningful manner.
Healers need to talk to each other figure out who you are healing and provide suggestions to others how to make your life easier do it vocally so we hear your ideas...if people heard you then choose ignore it, by all means be a little stern about it in a positive upbeat manner...I know healing is not easy and all your mana counts.
Tanks, talk before the fight vocally so that the raid can hear you...if you say something that someone may have a different outlook on we then have the ability to possibly catch mistakes before they occur. Chimearon is a perfect example of this, the healers were being blamed in a very sever manner when the problem was not healing at all. The problem was we were just not executing the double-attack strat properly and we were not taunting at the appropriate time.
DPS both meele and ranged, we also need to discuss before pulls were we need to stand..do we need to all be bunched up or do we need to be in two seperate groups, this seems to be the thing that plagues us the most. We need to talk about buffs and debuffs that amplify or DPS, we need to make sure we know when to switch to adds and or when to switch from one boss to another boss.
As a whole we need to discuss certain raid mechanics that if not followed we will wipe. We need to discuss boss positioning etc. I cannot do all this alone so I really would like everyone to step in and help plan our strats or just discuss so we make sure people know what to do before we pull. Doing this should reduce wipes and hopefully help us coordinate so that we can progress faster.
Mistakes are a learning experience and we will grow stronger learning from these mistakes. Let's all help each other in a positive and upbeat manner, like I said before communication is important and if you speak in a positive manner people are very responsive, if you do not and you are negative and condescending people will tend to get pissed at you and just ignore you all together.
In reply to this post, I would like everyone to start putting in more time to be prepared for raid including myself. We need to be prepared come raid time meaning we need to have watched these videos in advance and not be watching them during raid time. We only have 9 hours a week to clear 3 instances and learn the fights at the same time. I do my best to tell everyone where we will be headed every evening...alot of people do not even sign up for the raid so if you do not read the raid post and know where we are headed...that most likely means you are not prepared.
Also, showing up right at 9 then taking 15 min or more to start pulling is unacceptable. I am getting multiple private tells with very irritated individuals that are on time and want to be "pulling" by 9pm...long and short of it I agree, we need to be "pulling" at 9pm and no later. Like I stated in my post, I plan my life around our raid times and so do alot of the others in raid. I am on 30 minutes before raid every night ready to go and getting prepared. I expect the same from everyone else in raid giving respect to all members who put aside time from their real life to have fun and play a game. If it is your job or education that makes you slightly late, those items come first but please be on when you walk in the door because we likely have a full raid waiting on just you. We have one member of our raid playing in two raids and he does his best to be here before or right at 9 and ready to pull...I appreciate the effort to be here at 9 and ready to pull. If you are being late due to another wow related event or starting said event right at 9, that is unacceptable...you made a commitment to everyone in this raid that you would be here on time. If you started said evet before 9 and will be at the most 5 minutes late ok...I guess...but remember you have 9 other raiders waiting on you and you are wasting their time and hurting the raid as a whole limiting our already limited time for progression.
Also there is some negativity in raid, this needs to stop now. If we need to be watching videos we need to all make sure we are watching the same ones...last night there were discrepencies on raid strat due to "not" everyone watching the same video which caused bitching...the bitching needs to stop, I got a few tells last night about people not liking to hear people bitching...so it is not just me that wants it to stop. This is a group effort and I expect you all to give positive feedback about raid strats and ideas...negative comments and bitching get you nowhere, all you will do is piss people off...so long and short of it if you cannot say it in a positive way to help the individual don't bother saying anything at all or ask someone who knows how to put it in better words to say it for you.
This was not a negative post this is giving just a little insight as to concerns and private messages I recieve. Please guys I am asking nicely, watch the videos...let's just say watch everything from TankSpot and be ready and know your role. Please be on time to the best of your ability and be ready to do some progression. Please have respect for others and say things in a positive way. Please come with your A game and give the fights 100% attention. If we can do all this we will be able to progress much faster and everyone will be happy.
If you have any comments or concerns please reply to this post give me and others ideas or message me in game. I would like to know if everyone read this post..if you did not well then it got us nowhere and these issues need to be addressed.
Note: anytime it is a one tank fight...Kaluu goes Holy and Aurleas will go Elemental...just keep that in mind.
Please remember what you saw in the videos. It's really pointless to even have that break to watch the video if you fail to remember major components of the fight and we're forced to explain it line by line back anyways.
Second, it's fine if people watch different videos. What was wrong was that we need to discuss a little of what we saw. Not just a let's pull it and see. We have to assign roles, positions, etc to accomodate our particular raid setup.
Now I get we all may be a bit impatient with the whole late starts, many breaks to watch vids, that people may be skipping parts, skimming stuff, and want to pull asap. Let's curb that a little by patiently taking the time to absorb the final 4 strats in those videos above beforehand.
Parses:
saedo — Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:00Parses: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-s4zujkzxaw19nk6p/
Bump, because I want all
Knoppix (not verified) — Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:55Bump, because I want all members to read this.
Cho'gall:
saedo — Wed, 02/02/2011 - 02:06Cho'gall: http://www.wowhead.com/blog=177964/tankspot-cataclysm-raid-videos-chogall
Conclave of Wind: http://www.wowhead.com/blog=177058/tankspots-guide-to-the-conclave-of-wi...
Al'akir: http://www.wowhead.com/blog=178428/tankspot-cataclysm-raid-videos-alakir
Nefarian: http://www.wowhead.com/blog=179054/tankspots-guide-to-nefarian
Thanks for posting these
Karli — Wed, 02/02/2011 - 11:53Thanks for posting these videos Saedo.
As to Knoppix's wall of text (<3), I appreciate you saying what you did.
I know all of us have stuff going on that makes it not always easy to be perfect 100% of the time (on time, prepared, videos watched, no distractions, etc etc). That's okay. What is not okay is making it a habit.
It is hard to find a balance between being understanding, and condoning behavior that is not helpful to the group. I have never envied a raid leader's position in this regard.
I will come out and say I do not enjoy negative overtones, because not only do they make me uncomfortable, but I also find them to be more harmful than helpful. Try to keep your criticism constructive, and remember that we are all learning and this is just how it is with every raid. I've been raiding for years and these types of growing pains are normal and to be expected. Give people the benefit of the doubt. We are all working hard. We are all working out the kinks. And always be mindful that people will be infinitely more receptive of feedback when it is given in a friendly manner. I love feedback. I love suggestions. I think like most of us, I enjoy wow so much BECAUSE it is challenging, and the learning process is part of this.
So that being said, I think it is awesome that we have the group that
we do; I enjoy playing with all of you and am very excited at the
progress that we have made so far. With a little more preparation and
focus (which definitely includes myself), I think we can really blow
through some content.
<3
I agree with everything you
Knoppix (not verified) — Wed, 02/02/2011 - 12:50I agree with everything you said Karli and I appreciate the response. Thank you fo filling in the holes in my response as well. You are 100% right we are all learning and people being negative because people mess up is not going to be tolerated nor is it appropriate...now if you do it over and over after people have tried to nicely help you, well then that is a different story.
As to Saedo's reply, I agree with you instead of just pulling and pulling we do need to coordinate alot more and alot of the pulling quickly is my fault because I do not want to repeat past experiences of taking 30 min between every pull, 30 min and people stop paying attention if you are just talking and talking. Something that will greatly reduce the time for coordination is watching the videos on your free time. If you truly care like I do you will watch them in advance, I am watching them on my breaks I take during work. I will admit I do sometimes forget some of the strat and I apologize, people forget but if you watch it enough times you should have an easier time remembering. I am going to be putting in more time for raid strats and I hope you all do as well so when raid time comes we can have our coordination discussions in a quick but meaningful manner.
Healers need to talk to each other figure out who you are healing and provide suggestions to others how to make your life easier do it vocally so we hear your ideas...if people heard you then choose ignore it, by all means be a little stern about it in a positive upbeat manner...I know healing is not easy and all your mana counts.
Tanks, talk before the fight vocally so that the raid can hear you...if you say something that someone may have a different outlook on we then have the ability to possibly catch mistakes before they occur. Chimearon is a perfect example of this, the healers were being blamed in a very sever manner when the problem was not healing at all. The problem was we were just not executing the double-attack strat properly and we were not taunting at the appropriate time.
DPS both meele and ranged, we also need to discuss before pulls were we need to stand..do we need to all be bunched up or do we need to be in two seperate groups, this seems to be the thing that plagues us the most. We need to talk about buffs and debuffs that amplify or DPS, we need to make sure we know when to switch to adds and or when to switch from one boss to another boss.
As a whole we need to discuss certain raid mechanics that if not followed we will wipe. We need to discuss boss positioning etc. I cannot do all this alone so I really would like everyone to step in and help plan our strats or just discuss so we make sure people know what to do before we pull. Doing this should reduce wipes and hopefully help us coordinate so that we can progress faster.
Mistakes are a learning experience and we will grow stronger learning from these mistakes. Let's all help each other in a positive and upbeat manner, like I said before communication is important and if you speak in a positive manner people are very responsive, if you do not and you are negative and condescending people will tend to get pissed at you and just ignore you all together.
In reply to this post, I
Knoppix (not verified) — Wed, 02/02/2011 - 10:03In reply to this post, I would like everyone to start putting in more time to be prepared for raid including myself. We need to be prepared come raid time meaning we need to have watched these videos in advance and not be watching them during raid time. We only have 9 hours a week to clear 3 instances and learn the fights at the same time. I do my best to tell everyone where we will be headed every evening...alot of people do not even sign up for the raid so if you do not read the raid post and know where we are headed...that most likely means you are not prepared.
Also, showing up right at 9 then taking 15 min or more to start pulling is unacceptable. I am getting multiple private tells with very irritated individuals that are on time and want to be "pulling" by 9pm...long and short of it I agree, we need to be "pulling" at 9pm and no later. Like I stated in my post, I plan my life around our raid times and so do alot of the others in raid. I am on 30 minutes before raid every night ready to go and getting prepared. I expect the same from everyone else in raid giving respect to all members who put aside time from their real life to have fun and play a game. If it is your job or education that makes you slightly late, those items come first but please be on when you walk in the door because we likely have a full raid waiting on just you. We have one member of our raid playing in two raids and he does his best to be here before or right at 9 and ready to pull...I appreciate the effort to be here at 9 and ready to pull. If you are being late due to another wow related event or starting said event right at 9, that is unacceptable...you made a commitment to everyone in this raid that you would be here on time. If you started said evet before 9 and will be at the most 5 minutes late ok...I guess...but remember you have 9 other raiders waiting on you and you are wasting their time and hurting the raid as a whole limiting our already limited time for progression.
Also there is some negativity in raid, this needs to stop now. If we need to be watching videos we need to all make sure we are watching the same ones...last night there were discrepencies on raid strat due to "not" everyone watching the same video which caused bitching...the bitching needs to stop, I got a few tells last night about people not liking to hear people bitching...so it is not just me that wants it to stop. This is a group effort and I expect you all to give positive feedback about raid strats and ideas...negative comments and bitching get you nowhere, all you will do is piss people off...so long and short of it if you cannot say it in a positive way to help the individual don't bother saying anything at all or ask someone who knows how to put it in better words to say it for you.
This was not a negative post this is giving just a little insight as to concerns and private messages I recieve. Please guys I am asking nicely, watch the videos...let's just say watch everything from TankSpot and be ready and know your role. Please be on time to the best of your ability and be ready to do some progression. Please have respect for others and say things in a positive way. Please come with your A game and give the fights 100% attention. If we can do all this we will be able to progress much faster and everyone will be happy.
If you have any comments or concerns please reply to this post give me and others ideas or message me in game. I would like to know if everyone read this post..if you did not well then it got us nowhere and these issues need to be addressed.
Note: anytime it is a one tank fight...Kaluu goes Holy and Aurleas will go Elemental...just keep that in mind.
Well a couple of things I'd
saedo — Wed, 02/02/2011 - 11:47Well a couple of things I'd like to add.
Please remember what you saw in the videos. It's really pointless to even have that break to watch the video if you fail to remember major components of the fight and we're forced to explain it line by line back anyways.
Second, it's fine if people watch different videos. What was wrong was that we need to discuss a little of what we saw. Not just a let's pull it and see. We have to assign roles, positions, etc to accomodate our particular raid setup.
Now I get we all may be a bit impatient with the whole late starts, many breaks to watch vids, that people may be skipping parts, skimming stuff, and want to pull asap. Let's curb that a little by patiently taking the time to absorb the final 4 strats in those videos above beforehand.
So let's go go go!
Bump, all members read it.
Knoppix (not verified) — Wed, 02/02/2011 - 11:21Bump, all members read it.