So I guess this is the end...
Scaron — Tue, 03/24/2015 - 20:26
This is a pretty pointless exercise, I suppose. As dissenting voices are clearly no longer allowed in guild...this was going to be a comment on the no longer existent, evidently too controversial thread. Also, it was substantially nicer.
_________
Deleting dissenting voices and silencing posts that simply ask for questions followed by systematically kicking alts without hearing conversation is not what I signed up for.
This is no longer Downfall. This is a gulag.
Elapsed, you've lost it. Take some time. Get it together bro. You can't run a guild like a totalitarian dictatorship.
If you can't handle dissent, you're not able to handle the job of GM. I will miss Downfall. I've missed Downfall since it died long ago.
This is a sad day for Downfall
chaca — Wed, 03/25/2015 - 15:12This is a sad day for this community... or what's left of it...
We're still here.
Shihli — Wed, 03/25/2015 - 17:11We're still here.
The community is still here.
saedo — Wed, 03/25/2015 - 15:46The community is still here. Still strong. We are more than one singular raid.
True DF is more than just one
chaca — Wed, 03/25/2015 - 18:12True DF is more than just one raid... But to be honest, I stopped feeling the community since Man Hug disintegrated. At least this is how I feel. That's why i liked the idea of a unified raid again... take all the politics and points of views aside, having a unified raid promotes interaction and binds a sense of a community together... I don't want to revive the discussion or anything, it's just the way I feel...
The community is, and always
Shihli — Wed, 03/25/2015 - 18:29The community is, and always will be, more than any one raid, person, or even group of people.
For example. I'm still here and I stopped playing six years ago. Furthermore, other people are still here DESPITE the fact that I'm still here.
A unified raid is a nice thing, but we've never had just one raid. Back when there was Kitten Brigade, there was also LF1M. Hell, back when there was Raid:Awesome, it was "raid 2" for the longest time.
We're all still here, we're all still a part of the greater community. People come and go, but we're all hooked on a feeling.
I'm probably here more...
Netti — Thu, 04/30/2015 - 07:07because of you and the others more than anything. Always stuff to like outside of the game.
To me a unified raid is a
chaca — Wed, 03/25/2015 - 18:48To me a unified raid is a means to that end... Why am I not closer to say Saedo? Cuz he didn't raid with me in Salmon, so we didn't have the environment that promoted the interaction... It's just the way I see it.
You might also not be closer
Shihli — Wed, 03/25/2015 - 21:36You might also not be closer with Saedo because you didn't seek out to play with him, or your schedules never meshed, or any number of other reasons.
Throughout its history Downfall has never been a one-raid guild.
But only 20ish people would
saedo — Wed, 03/25/2015 - 18:50But only 20ish people would be unified. What about the 20 others that don't get in?
Either way, only some will feel unified and some will feel left out and disconnected from the big group. Nothing really changes in the big picture.
The way I understood the
chaca — Thu, 03/26/2015 - 07:22The way I understood the proposal, the other raids were never meant to disappear. It was proposed to create a unified raid to do Mythic and keep raiding Heroics on the other raids... It sounded to me like a good alternative to increase our interaction between raids and gather the best players of all 3 current raids to take the ultimate challenge... It doesn't really matter anymore... it just sounded like a good thing to break the divisional walls the current raids have built between us that, imo, were built since Man Hug dissolved...
The suggestion of the unified
Aeolyn — Thu, 03/26/2015 - 11:33The suggestion of the unified raid wasn't made to unite the guild. It was made in the name of raid progression. From the very start of the pitch the tone was overwhelmingly "nothing is sacred. Mythic bosses need to die". Atar wanted a successful raid. There was no regard for anything but optimization. As soon as you suggest that your goal is to always have your ideal 20 people for any given fight you have given up on reality AND given up on your individual raiders. If that were a feasible goal to make The Best Raid Ever we would have done it when forming groups initially. It isn't for a lot of reasons.
Also, it was especially tone deaf to have assumed that all the desired players would have appreciated the extra 6-9 raid hours per week.
This was never about breaking social walls or "brinigng the band back together" or any such pleasantness. It was a small group of people wanting more raid progression and not giving a crap about the scope of sacrifices that would have to be made in order to get those kills.
That would have meant asking
saedo — Thu, 03/26/2015 - 08:49That would have meant asking those "best" players to raid 6 hours a night for both raids. That would have meant we raid on the East Coast schedule of 9-12 EST to allow 2 raids to run (their ideal slot, not the rest of ours ideal slot). It would have meant those raids were forever unable to try Mythic themselves, unless they were to drop those "best" players from their raid, or force them to use alts.
With Man Hug, I'm sure someone with 6 hour raiding experience they had back then can give better testimony on this than me. As I understood it, it wasn't all roses like you seem to remember.
Another thing that would make this different from Man Hug is that back then, the guild was a bunch of 10 mans. That was gathering a few from each 10 man to from one big 25 man in the name of community. Today's climate is different, we have 3 20ish man raids, and it wasn't gathering them for a 40 man raid, but one of equal size, 20 man, and each of us had our own goals for Mythic. If Man Hug were a best of the best 10 man raid gathered from all the 10 mans, then it'd be more similar.
There just wasn't enough thought put into it, and if it were to have been discussed internally beforehand we might have come to some mutual understanding.
The "walls" as you put it have always been there for some people. The ones that only interact with the ones they raid with will always feel that way. But there are people who play with people outside their raid, have their friends outside raid, talk to people outside raid. That's how you really tap into this community.
Put it this way, maybe 10-20
Lilpuddinpop — Wed, 03/25/2015 - 16:11Put it this way, maybe 10-20 people left. Still 2 active raids here and hundreds of people that come and go from the game time to time.
Nothing "died" when these few people left. To be honest the only thing it ment to other raids is we get more money per day for repairs....
The guild is still strong with an awesome group of people leading us. They will continue downfall's reputation and sense of family long into the future just as was done in the past.
Sorry to see you go
Tannis — Wed, 03/25/2015 - 12:06Although I firmly disagree with the premise of your post, I'm sorry to see you leave. I didn't know you, but have heard you're an incredible player. Maybe when everyone has time to think, and process the situation, things can be different.
Good luck in your endeavors regarding WoW, and maybe we'll see you here again.
That's funny because when I
Insta — Tue, 03/24/2015 - 20:53That's funny because when I transferred my warlock, I wonder what happened? Oh yea, all my alts got kicked.
I dont know the full in's and
Mehguy — Tue, 03/24/2015 - 21:14I dont know the full in's and outs of why, but just FYI, to my understanding that was at Atar's request... sooo.....
Without even consulting me or
Insta — Tue, 03/24/2015 - 21:25Without even consulting me or at least getting to talk over it on mumble? That's some tomfoolery.
Use that kind of language again
Shatner — Tue, 03/24/2015 - 22:07and it's another gkick. No one says "tomfoolery" in serious discussion.
The alts kicked were people
saedo — Tue, 03/24/2015 - 20:32The alts kicked were people who gquit themselves. The first thing i saw was Ataraxia gkicking his own alts then ending with a gquit himself. Then you. Then Latro. Then the alts were cleared for you.
Alts
Aloriisa — Tue, 03/24/2015 - 20:40Were the alts beings kicked necessary? Just because those people left with their main characters does not mean they still don't have friends in this guild and want to keep in touch. Unless I didnt realize I thought this was supposed to be a friendly envoinment with casuals and alts still currently in guild for the sake of friends.
If they left for good reason,
saedo — Tue, 03/24/2015 - 20:45If they left for good reason, talked to us, we're more than welcome to keep the alts as friends. But a rage gquit. That leaves a bad taste.
Leaving
Aloriisa — Tue, 03/24/2015 - 20:53So if someone doesn't agree with something and wants to leave to fix the problem thier alts can't stay for friends they leave behind? That sounds like a friendly guild to me.
Leaving doesn't fix the
saedo — Tue, 03/24/2015 - 20:57Leaving doesn't fix the problem they perceive. And Friends list exist.
Besides, do they want their alts to stay? Really? Remember, the first thing that happened was Ataraxia himself, removing all his alts.
One Player
Aloriisa — Tue, 03/24/2015 - 21:21That is one player not all of the other peoples alts who got kicked as well as a main.