The WotLK Rogue Thread
saedo — Fri, 08/22/2008 - 11:04
There really hasn't been any ground shaking rogue changes in Wrath. Even the talents are not fully functioning. We're apparently last on the development cycle. Hopefully at least. But there's a few changes to note that just happened:
- Gouge does not award a combo point anymore.
- Mace Specialization (Combat) no longer stuns enemies, and instead increases critical damage bonus by 2/4/6/8/10%.
Meh no big deal here either. Though losing that mace stun is a bit of a surprise. This mace is a boost to pve damage, but don't think it's closes the gap much on Sword Spec or anything.
But here's where the talk gets more exciting, the Glyphs:
- Glyph - Sap - Increases the duration of Sap by 10 sec.
- Glyph - Evasion - Increases the duration of Evasion by 5 sec.
- Glyph - Backstab - Increases the damage dealt by Backstab to stunned and incapacitated targets by 20%.
- Glyph - Rupture - Increases the duration of Rupture by 5 sec.
- Glyph - Eviscerate - Increases the critical strike chance of Eviscerate by 10%.
- Glyph - Expose Armor - Increases the duration of Expose Armor by 10 sec.
- Glyph - Feint - Reduces the energy cost of Feint by -10.
- Glyph - Shiv - Reduces the energy cost of Shiv by -5.
- Glyph - Deadly Throw - Increases the range on Deadly Throw by 5 yards.
- Glyph - Hemorrhage - Increases the damage bonus against targets afflicted by Hemorrhage by 40%.
- Glyph - Adrenaline Rush - Decreases the cooldown of Adrenaline Rush by 60 sec.
- Glyph - Gouge - Reduces the power cost of Gouge by -10.
- Glyph - Slice and Dice - Increases the duration of Slice and Dice by 3 sec.
- Glyph - Sprint - Decreases the cooldown of Sprint by 60 sec.
- Glyph - Garrote - Increases periodic damage dealt by Garrrote by 45%, but decreases the duration by 3 sec.
- Glyph - Ambush - Increases the range on Ambush by 5 yards.
- Glyph
- Ghostly Strike - Increases the damage dealt by Ghostly Strike by 50%
and the duration of its effect by 4 sec., but increases its cooldown by
10 sec.. - Glyph of Blade Flurry - Reduces the energy cost of Blade Flurry by 100%.
- Glyph of Preparation - Decreases the cooldown of Preparation by 2 min.
- Glyph of Crippling Poison - Increases the chance to trigger Crippling Poison by 10%.
- Glyph of Sinister Strike - Your Sinister Strike critical strikes have a 40% chance to add an additional combo point.
So my review of this:
- Sap - PvP or better CC in the 5 mans
- Evasion - The best 15 sec of a rogue's life becomes 20 sec!
- Backstab - PvP, soloing, 5 mans. Doubt raid stuff can be stunned much, maybe some trash.
- Rupture - It's a small boost to rupture. Not really all that impressive, but maybe better for pvp when you wanna keep bleeds on someone
- Evis - Decent maybe for Mulilate folks, but other glyphs prob outshine this
- Expose Armor - Helps keep it up. Definitely good for pve if you don't need/have the Sunders
- Feint - Heh, not even on the bars anymore.
- Shiv - Meh, pvp i guess
- Deadly Throw - More pvp goodness
- Hemo - Hum, I think this means it increases the hemo debuffs effectiveness, so that'd make it do 105 more physical dmg at max rank in Wrath. Prob still a small raid buff though compared to everything else
- AR - Pretty decent. Depending on fight can squeeze an extra AR in.
- Gouge - PvP
- SnD - Huh so kinda like the 2 pc T4. Well it's nice bonus too.
- Sprint - Mostly pvp but some pve movement applications can help
- Garrote - Well improves the only finisher sword pve rogues use anyways. PvP wise, it costs you if your intention was to keep a bleed on.
- Ambush - Huh, very interesting. Start that ambush further away
- Ghostly Strike - Well maybe pvp, or rogue tanking uses.
- BF - Freebie with it, so very good.
- Prep - More pvp
- Cripp - PvP again
- SS - Actually pretty good. Should let you add another finisher over time.
Yea but it's not as if Vigor
saedo — Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:19Yea but it's not as if Vigor constantly gives you more energy. It's 10 at the start, 10 when you cap energy (bad situations). After you used it up, energy regen goes back to normal. So it's only really good for the "opening moves".
Oh yea, forgot to mention the SnD glyph. Yes you would need that to help maintain SnD. Rupture is good too, current beta testing shows it does just give 2 more equal value ticks (not reducing dmg), so that's straight up 20% more damage from ruptures.
Just don't worry about "rupture uptimes". SnD is always priority (via Envenom now), and just Rupture when you can as bonus damage.
Killing Spree is amazing. I've heard rumors of someone doing 18K burst on a warrior with it. But of course that's not gonna happen anymore. Still good, raid wise it's like a 75 dps CD to use. About a 5-7K burst every 2 mins.
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I threw vigor because
Barqz — Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:11I threw vigor because mutilate sucks up so much energy..but if at end came the energy ticks work better then i will just keep it for lvling..thats if i dont stay swords to lvl..killing spree makes me giggle hard. I'll rework the trees, I also so blizz threw out ideas for imp rupture and sd glyphs which will help with my problem of keeping sd up as my spec..thats if its implimented. i'll rework some more and show you..thanks bro
This world has got me praying on my knees for 1 peaceful thought in my mind...
Yup. Dodge talent/imp
Agoney — Sat, 09/20/2008 - 23:51Yup. Dodge talent/imp kick/etc are supposed to be all reworked by release. With xpac coming closer and closer I think im returning to my roots.
http://talent.mmo-champion.co
Barqz — Sat, 09/20/2008 - 22:30http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=00500500500000000000000000000053231053501005201032013513020000000000000000000000000 there is what i have, your right about the expertice and ruing quick recovery..from what it looks like there will be massive massive crit ratings on gear which i hope will make focus attacks proc more. On ptr it doesnt really proc at all, and Barqs hasn't xferred to beta yet..waiting till tomorrow on that.
This world has got me praying on my knees for 1 peaceful thought in my mind...
NO! Relentless Strikes
saedo — Sat, 09/20/2008 - 23:37NO! Relentless Strikes mandatory! 5 points in it! lol
Close Quarter Combat is nice and all but it's not uber super that everyone must get! lol Take 2 points out of that for maxing that Relentless Strikes.
Vigor is meh. Only useful if you're in fights where you run around too much and start energy capping, then you'd have more to start again with. Put that point in Find Weakness.
Also, just remember Turn the Tables is better for that personal dps, Master Poisoner is better for that raid dps if there's no one else capable of filling that slot (Totem of Wrath or Heart of the Crusader).
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They haven't said. All
saedo — Sat, 09/20/2008 - 21:31They haven't said. All Blizz has said is, "yes they know it's weak in the tier 4", and "will make it more desirable", and "make it more of a dps talent". So just vague statements saying they'll do something about it. But nothing yet so far despite that reworking combat tree a bit already. So hope they're making more passes at it.
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Whats was the intended
Shinzwei — Sat, 09/20/2008 - 21:28Whats was the intended change for Lightning Reflexes?
Pretty much same for me:
saedo — Sat, 09/20/2008 - 21:22Pretty much same for me: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0252051000050155203100501251005000...
I only put 5/5 Lightning Reflexes out of hope Blizz goes through with what they said before and will remake that talent to be more worth getting.
And at level 80: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0252051000050155203100501251005020...
Assuming Blizz intends to make 2-3 specs raid viable instead of 1 spec pulling way way ahead like in BC. (on beta mutilate pulled ahead by 15%, balancing is still occurring though)
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My raiding spec for 3.0 pre
Shinzwei — Sat, 09/20/2008 - 21:10My raiding spec for 3.0 pre Wrath.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=02520520002201552031005012510050000000000000000000000005000000000000000000000000000
Well you're probably better
saedo — Sat, 09/20/2008 - 20:11Well you're probably better off in a build like this: 51/13/7.
Opportunity is better than Close Quarters Combat. You'd switch Turn the Tables with Master Poisoner if you're the only one that can provide that raid buff (no pallies reliably doing it).
You might take 2 points out of Murder if you wanna min-max for like Naxx specifically since it's mostly full of undead. Can put in Fleet Footed if you don't have Unholy DK around. Or Quick Recovery. Or take Blood Splatter points out and put into Quick Recovery.
Quick Recovery getting the short end now cause there's just much more expertise gear in Wrath. Once you get capped, definitely move those points out somewhere else.
Focused Attacks atm is either buffed or bugged, proc'ing twice off Mutilates.
But anyways, because of Cut to the Chase at the moment, you'd wanna use Envenom to keep up Slice and Dice. Rupture otherwise. Evis still sucks causes it doesn't scale with AP as well as the others and is mitigated by armor.
Envenom now allowing you to proc more poisons after its use so makes it worth losing a Deadly Poison stack.
A typical cycle probably becomes like 4+s -> 4+r -> 4+e. Then juggle the Envenoms in whenever SnD is getting short or Rupture is up. Rupture is only something you'd do if SnD is up just fine and not already ticking on the mob.
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Seado, I just got on beta,
Barqz — Sat, 09/20/2008 - 19:31Seado, I just got on beta, and been doing ptr. for a lvl 80 mutilate i was thinking a varient of a 51/15/5 spec, but losing the imp slice and dice seems to make it hard to keep that ability up with rupture and enven/evic cycles. I'm not sure if you noticed a similar account with this, or if at 80, the gear sclaes crit enough to where focused attacks really starts to shine. Hit me up with any info..also when I get around to it, I will link my mutilate spec for 80 and see if there is anything you may think need tweaking. thanks bro.
This world has got me praying on my knees for 1 peaceful thought in my mind...
More changes. Overall a
saedo — Fri, 09/19/2008 - 21:28More changes. Overall a nerf to Mutilate, buff to Combat. More balancing. Deadly Brew was a 500 DPS talent so yea, it was the thing to fix without messing with too much of everything else.
Skills
Combat
* Gouge awards one combo point once again.
Subtlety
* Tricks of the Trade now costs 15 energy.
Talent
Assassination
* Hunger for Blood now only attempt to remove a Bleed effect. (Old - any harmful physical effect)
* Deadly Brew now only has a chance to apply Crippling poison
* Improved Poisons now increases the chance to apply Instant and Deadly poison to your target by 2/4/6/8/10% (Down from 3/6/9/12/15%)
Combat
* Savage Combat now also increases your total attack power by 2/4%.
* Vitality has been changed now increases your Energy renegeration rate by 3/6/10%.
* Aggression has been moved from Tier 6 to Tier 5 and changed to 5 points. Now Increases the damage of your Sinister Strike, Backstab, and Eviscerate abilities by 2/4/6/8/10%.
* Endurance now increases your total stamina by 2/4% additionally from the Sprint / Evasion cooldown reduction
Subtlety
* Filthy Tricks now the cooldown of your Tricks of the Trade and Distract abilities by 5/10 secs and Preparation by 2.5/5 min.
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Right now the community is
saedo — Thu, 09/18/2008 - 09:46Right now the community is holding out hope that Blizz's intention is to make 2-3 specs viable for raiding. Being somewhat equal to one another. Daggers got the big boosts cause they're currently are just behind at equal levels.
So poisons got the nerf that was expected. That's one thing. There's still that "promised" retooling of Lightning Reflexes (5% dodge), it's just not worth getting all the way up in Tier 4.
Combat Potency needs to be fixed (broken on Beta).
And other retoolings can be done. Also, Armor Pen sucks now. Well, the armor pen rating things. So maybe that can be fixed up too.
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So far it looks like swords
pulga — Thu, 09/18/2008 - 07:33So far it looks like swords are getting the short end of the stick this time around, which sucks, becuase I enjoy swords. If I do get back to playing often, expect to see a level 80 DK with some variation of Pulga. I'll also level Pulga to 80, but I just dislike daggers.
So is that to say that muti
Felsteel — Thu, 09/18/2008 - 07:17So is that to say that muti dags will be the new raiding spec or will sword rouges still be BAMFs for raiding?
Evis or Envenom. Well,
saedo — Thu, 09/18/2008 - 00:07Evis or Envenom. Well, you'd use Envenom. It ignores armor, scales better with AP, does more damage, and increases chance to apply poisons for quick ramp up of Deadly again.
Mutilate rogues with Naxx gear and 2 fast daggers for uber poison proc'ing are doing 5K dps in Beta.
Well this poison nerfs will drop it down now, not sure how much yet.
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i was looking at talents
Felsteel — Wed, 09/17/2008 - 23:47i was looking at talents today and one was, "i think" when you land eviscirate you have a 20/40/60/80/100% chance to renew SnD to its full 5CP duration. am i right here or am i seeing things? cause if thats true, means hella lot more dps i belive.
New Beta Build, rogue nerfs,
saedo — Wed, 09/17/2008 - 23:19New Beta Build, rogue nerfs, I mean retunings.
Assassination
* Envenom - Chance to apply poison reduced to 15% from 25%.
* Ambush - Base damage increased from 335 to 907.5 (Rank 10).
* Backstab - Base damage increased from 255 to 465 (Rank 12).
* Improved Poisons - Talent reworked. Now Increases the chance to apply Instant and Deadly Poison to your target by 3/6/9/12/15% down from 5/10/15/20/25%.
Poisons
* Anesthetic Poison II - Chance to apply increased to 50% from 20%.
* Wound Poison VII - Chance to apply increased to 50% from 30%. AP coef reduced to .04 from .06.
* Deadly Poison - Base damaged reduced, AP coef reduced to .12 from .08.
* Instant Poison - Base damaged reduced, AP coef reduced to .15 from .1.
* Mind-numbing Poison - Chance to apply increased to 50% from 20%.
* Crippling Poison - Chance to apply increased to 50% from 30%.
And here's the poison formulas:
Deadly Poison 9 (8926): 536 damage + 12% AP
Deadly Poison 9 (8962): 296 damage + 8% AP
Instant Poison 9 (8926): 445-595 damage + 15% AP
Instant Poison 9 (8962): 300-400 damage + 10% AP
So this was all pretty much expected. Poisons were doing way way too much damage.
And looks like they're trying to buff non-mulilate backtab dagger builds a bit.
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The new beta build brought
saedo — Fri, 09/05/2008 - 23:58The new beta build brought about the above changes I think and more. Here's the new stuff
Assassination
Skills
Dismantle required level changed from 75 to 20. Max range changed to 5 Yards.
Talents
Hunger For Blood damage bonus reduced from 5% to 3%. Now works with any harmful physical effect affecting you.
Blood Spatter has been moved from Tier 9 to Tier 2. Now Increases the damage caused by your Garrote and Rupture abilities by 15/30%. (Old - 10/20%)
Find Weakness changed from 5 points to 3 points. Now increases the damage of all offensive abilities by 3/6/9% (Old - Your finishing moves increase the damage of all your offensive abilities by 2/4/6/8/10% for 10 sec.)
Combat
Talents
Prey on the Weak now increases the damage of all your critical strike damage by 4/8/12/16/20%. (Old - Only affected normal melee critical strike, increased by 5/10/15/20/25%)
Suprirse Attacks now also affects Hemorrhage.
Improved Slice and Dice changed from 3 points to 2 points. Now Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 25/50%. (Old - 15/30/45%)
Subtlety
Skills
Tricks of the Trade range changed to 20 yards. (Reminder - The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time.)
Deadly Poison - Now scales with AP, doing [36.0 (Rank 1) + 0.12 * AP] Nature damage
Instant Poison - Now scales with AP, doing [44.0(Rank 3) + 0.15 * AP] Nature damage.
Wound Poison - Now scales with AP, causing [53.0(Rank 4) + 0.06 * AP] Nature damage.
Well on the new stuff.
So a nerf to Hunger for Blood, but guess it dispels more so more situations for it to be a freebie.
Blood Splatter moving to Tier 2 makes it a possible good filler for that tree. Reachable by combat builds. Reachable also with a Combat/Serrated Blades build which could be the winner. 60% more damage to Ruptures. Hehe, well dunno if that's better for dps yet, but certainly could be fun for bleeds.
Well guess this is how they decided to go with a Passive Find Weakness, bit of a nerf in a sense, but does make Mutilate easier to play.
Prey on the Weak is nerfed 5%, bleh.
Surprise Attacks, well maybe a good tri-spec hemo can come of it?
Imp SnD, wow, now this is nice, saves a talent point and boosts it up 5%. Uber nice.
Tricks of the Trade, heh, can aim at a caster too!
And Poisons now scale with AP, very nice! Initial mathies indicate that with those formulas it makes the poisons about 3x better in damage than it is on live currently.
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Another Blue Post on this:
saedo — Wed, 09/03/2008 - 00:12Another Blue Post on this: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9336581201&sid=2000
General
- Cloak of Shadows cooldown changed to 1.5 min.
- Disarm Trap range increased to 20 yds, cast time reduced to 1 sec, now requires stealth.
- (NEW – Level 75) Tricks of the Trade: The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time. 30 sec cooldown. (Surprise! :) Yes, this is the new group/raid utility ability. We haven’t put any stacking protection on it yet but we’ll need one type of solution or other to prevent the need for 5 rogue Trick rotations. Note also that you cannot use this ability on yourself.)
Assassination
- Vigor moved to Tier 3.
- Relentless Strikes moved to Subtlety Tier 1, made 5 ranks for 4/8/12/16/20% chance.
- Murder moved to Tier 6, now increases damage by 2/4%.
- (NEW – Tier 7) Overkill: Abilities used while stealthed and for 6 seconds after breaking stealth cost 10 less energy.
- Focused Attacks and Turn the Tables have swapped locations.
- Master Poisoner moved to Tier 9, no longer increases chance to hit with poison attacks, now increases the critical hit chance of all attacks made against any target you have poisoned by 1/2/3% and reduces the duration of all Poison effects applied to you by 17/34/50%. (This does not stack with the Paladin talent Heart of the Crusader.)
- Hunger for Blood duration increased to 30 seconds.
Combat
- Precision now also increases chance to hit with poison attacks by 1/2/3/4/5%.
- Nerves of Steel will now reduce damage taken while stunned or feared by 15/30% rather than reducing duration.
- Improved Sprint moved to Tier 4.
- Blade Twisting now slows movement speed by 70%.
- Mace Specialization now ignores 3/6/9/12/15% of target’s armor.
- Throwing Specialization now also has a chance to interrupt target when Fan of Knives is used.
- Unfair Advantage: Whenever you dodge an attack you strike back for 50/100% of your main hand weapon’s damage.
- Stay of Execution removed, replaced with Blood Poisoning.
- (NEW – Tier 9) Blood Poisoning: All physical damage caused to enemies you have poisoned is increased by 1/2%.
- Prey on the Weak now increases critical strike damage of all attacks.
- Killing Spree is the new name for Murder Spree and should be working much better very soon.
Subtlety
- Shadowstep will no longer be usable while rooted.
- Elusiveness moved to Tier 3, now reduces cooldown of Cloak of Shadows by 15/30 sec.
- Premeditation cooldown reduced to 20 sec.
- Preparation no longer refreshes the cooldown to Premeditation.
- Master of Deception reduced to 3 ranks.
- Opportunity reduces to 2 ranks for 10/20%.
- Camouflage reduced to 3 ranks for 5/10/15% speed and 2/4/6 sec off the cooldown of Stealth.
- Initiative moved to Tier 4, increased to 33/66/100% chance.
- Improved Ambush moved to Tier 4, reduced to 2 ranks for 25/50%.
- Serrated Blades moved to Tier 3.
- Wrongfully Accused replaced with Filthy Tricks.
- (NEW – Tier 9) Filthy Tricks: Reduces the cooldown of your Tricks of the Trade and Distract abilities by 5/10 sec.
- Slaughter from the Shadows now also reduces the energy cost of your Hemorrhage ability by 1/2/3/4/5.
- Shadow Dance redesigned, now allows the use of Sap, Garrote, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Premeditation, Pickpocket and Disarm Trap regardless of being stealthed. Those abilities all gain a cooldown of 2 sec. Lasts 10 sec.
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My
saedo — Wed, 09/03/2008 - 00:44My thoughts:
General
Assassination
Combat
Subtley
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More changes
saedo — Sat, 08/30/2008 - 00:29More changes discovered:
Assassination
Skills
now increases the chance to apply poisons by 25% to targets for 1 sec
plus an additional 1 sec per combo point in addition to its current
effect.
Talents
Poisoner (Tier 6) text clarified: Reduces the chance your poisons will
be resisted by 5% and reduces the duration of all Poison effects
applied to you by 25%.
Subtlety
Talents
Among Thieves (Tier 9) changed to: When anyone in your group critically
hits with a damage or healing spell or ability, you have a 33/66/100%
chance to gain a combo point on your current target. This effect cannot
occur more than once every second.
Well the change to Expose Armor makes us match Sunders, no more surpassing it with Imp Expose though, just increases duration. So becomes pointless to do unless you have no Warrior MTing.
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Glyph of Blurred Speed --
Ewiges — Mon, 09/01/2008 - 13:51Glyph of Blurred Speed -- You gain the ability to walk on water while your Sprint ability is active.
I've been putting this into the suggestion forums for about 4 years now. Didn't want it as a glyph, but what ev.
This appears to be the new
saedo — Fri, 08/29/2008 - 20:56This appears to be the new level 75 talent: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?page=632
Tricks of the Trade
The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks
of the Trade. The threat caused by your next attack and all actions
taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In
addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during
this time.
Instant, 30 sec cooldown
So we get a misdirect.
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New Glyphs Glyph of Pick
saedo — Fri, 08/29/2008 - 19:56New Glyphs
So first 1 is uh, guess interesting, hope there's good stuff to take.
2nd one seems good for the pvp.
3rd one looks just fun to use! For 15 sec we can be jesuses! lol
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Let's see my thoughts. Ok
saedo — Fri, 08/29/2008 - 18:09Let's see my thoughts.
Ok first we save 2 bag spaces with removal of Thieves Tools and Flash Powder. Even if the poison are now vendor buyable, I don't think typical rogues carry around reagents to take up bag space.
Envenom increase chance to apply poison? Worthless. 1, poisons are small amount of damage. 2, with the merger of spell/melee hit ratings, we get spell hit! So unless they make our poisons totally not effected by any hit, then we're pretty geared up for it to not resist anyways.
Wound Poison, uh good, no longer have to wait/shiv the 5 stack.
Anethestic, worthless. Well unless a boss or something enrages every 5 sec and needs us to constantly proc the dispel on him.... Well that'd be a gimmick fight to use this anyways.
CDs reduced to 3 mins, always good.
Cloak of Shadows, damn, guess basically declaring it as more of a pvp move, which it really is. lol
New level 75 ability for group utility. Now this just might be that TBA Blood Frenzy equivalent, so 1-2% more physical damage, more or less. But no one really knows.
Fan of Knives, saw this coming of course lol Fixes it a bit, but still a gimmick AoE.
Mutilate, good, addresses one weakness of the dagger builds. But no real increase in pve damage in most situations.
Relentless Strikes, wow finally. Every single pve rogue build had to have this. 11 points in assass no longer required I guess. But the 10 points before weren't bad to take either. So meh.
Find Weakness, whoa passive. Well makes Mutilate play a bit easier with one less timer to look for.
Cut to the Chase, well still an underwhelming talent for something so high in the tree. Mutilate cycles won't change cause Envenom still sucks up Deadly Poison and both cost 10 more energy than Rupture. So still a tertiary finisher even with this.
Hunger for Blood, buffed ya, but still probs like before with energy costs. Best if the fight constantly puts debuffs on you I guess.
Riposte, good for combo point, eh for pve still
Mace spec, now with armor pen, well depending on how much they give, this spec can actually be good. But still, it means its effectiveness is based on how much armor the boss has. So a bit unstable that way.
Deflection, for ppl that really want Riposte.
Close Quarters, interesting, merged fist and daggers and moved down to tier 3. This actually makes it more accessible via Mutilate.
Dual Wield, wow down to tier one. Now this REALLY makes all the good stuff accessible to mutialte builds. Looks like Blizz might really be pushing the Mutilate/Dagger builds to reign supreme.
Unfair Advantage / Prey - gotta wait to see what they say about it. But looks like they wanna remove more of the defensive portion and turn it into offense. Or this could be that TBA Blood Frenzy equiv. If Blizz is pushing Mutilate to be top in personal dps, perhaps Combat gets the raid utility dps.
Murder Spree, this would be a boost since we tend to use fast off hands.
Sub tier 1, they have to say what it is lol
Fewer dagger talents, hmm prob less of the attack from behind stealth ambush stuff
Wrongfully accused, would be interesting to see how far they drop it in the tree
Shadow dance, fix it!
Overall, this does kinda open up some builds. Like Mutilate going 51/15/5 which gets Opp, Dual Wield, Dagger Spec so kinda of a big boost there. For Combat, without relentless strikes, perhaps we can go down Sub tree, pick up Serrated Blades and such, 0/51/20, or maybe hemo. Well, still gotta see what they actually give us.
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The big blue post:
saedo — Fri, 08/29/2008 - 17:32The big blue post: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9336456598&sid=2000
Hello rogues,
We’ve got some updates coming soon for the rogue class and I wanted
to duck in and give you a sneak preview of what we’ve been working on
as well as our future goals. Below are lists (by no means exhaustive)
of some of these changes and goals.
General
- Quality of life improvements: Removal of various reagents
(Thieves’ Tools, Flash Powder) as well as a Poisons skill change. We’re
removing the Poisons skill and making the finished poisons available on
vendors for purchase. This should free up a fair amount of bag space.
- Envenom: Now also increases your chance to apply poisons by 25% for 2-6 seconds (based on combo points).
- Wounding Poison: No longer stacks. The first application now reduces healing by 50%.
- Anesthetic Poison: Now also removes one Enrage effect from the target.
- Evasion, Sprint, Vanish: Cooldown reduced to 3 minutes. (Talents that reduce cooldown take this down to 2 minutes.)
- Cloak of Shadows: Cooldown increased to 2 minutes. (Elusiveness now reduces this cooldown to 1 minute.)
- A new level 75 ability has been designed. This is going to be one
of the bigger teases as we’re not quite ready to talk about this one
yet. I will say that will add some much needed group utility.
- Fan of Knives: Weapon normalization to equalize effectiveness regardless of weapons carried.
Assassination
- Mutilate: No longer requires you be behind the target.
- Relentless Strikes: Talent is too “required” and will be made
more accessible. Vigor will replace its spot in the tree and a new
talent will be created to fill Vigor’s spot.
- Find Weakness: Made passive to cut down on the number of
triggered effects that either don’t affect gameplay or affect it in a
negative way.
- Cut to the Chase: No longer requires a critical Eviscerate or Envenom. The finisher just has to land.
- Hunger for Blood: Now removes any harmful physical effect instead
of Bleed or Magic effects. Bleed effects will still be removed (as all
are physical) as well as effects like Mortal Strike, Aimed Shot, Expose
Armor etc…
Combat
- Riposte: Now generates a combo point.
- Mace Specialization: This will grant armor penetration when using a mace. (The warrior talent will as well.)
- Deflection: Reduced to 3 ranks for 2/4/6% parry. This should soften the prereq for Riposte.
- Fist Weapon Specialization: Merged with Dagger Specialization.
- Dagger Specialization: Renamed Close Quarters Combat, moved to tier 3.
- Dual Wield Specialization: Moved to tier 1. Lightning Reflexes
swapped locations with it and still needs a little more “oomph”.
- Unfair Advantage and Stay of Execution: Change to more
offensive/utility (read mobility) talents. Too much defense on this
tier.
- Killing Spree: Weapon normalization to equalize effectiveness regardless of weapons carried.
Subtlety
- More attractive Tier 1 to draw in all types of builds.
- Fewer dagger specific talents to allow additional build options.
- Wrongfully Accused: Reviewed. This talent doesn’t fit well in this location. May be moved lower and/or redesigned.
- Shadow Dance: A bit awkward at the moment. Due for some polish and some design tweaks.
Plenty to do still as you can see. As I mentioned, this isn’t
everything we’ve got our eye on but gives you something to discuss and
look for in an upcoming beta patch. Please add to the list anything you
think needs special attention.
Thanks for reading. I’m going back to work.
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Well no, not really.
saedo — Sat, 08/23/2008 - 10:16Well no, not really. You do get an occasional CP but mostly likely you won't have the energy to perform the Evis if you want to maintain SnD and Rupture up. You'd have to be lucky with Combat Potency procs. The combat tree is more or less the exact same thing it is in BC. Couple of talents to boost damage a bit, but so far, same mechanics are happening.
And the getting CP from someone else's crit, that's Honor Among Theives, and it's the Subtlety tree. Deep in there. So only really a Shadowstep rogue can get it. That tree hasn't been buffed that much PvE wise to make it viable that far down.
Mutilate does gain seemingly more boosts. Got energy regen talent, and another raid synergy sucker in Turn the Tables, whenever raid member blocks/dodges/parries, you gain more crit. But Cut to the Chase is weak for a 5 point talent that deep in, and Hunger for Blood can only really shine in fights where you can debuff yourself.
But meh, yea gotta wait to see when the make all the talents work at least. Being last on this development cycles sucks!
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There are a lot of talents
Ewiges — Sat, 08/23/2008 - 04:00There are a lot of talents in WotLK that make rogues generate CP extremely fast. With the added times/damage of our finishing moves, it is now going to be possible to have a rotation include rupture, SnD, and Eviscerate. It will be interesting to see how they all play together. One talent screams, gains +1CB every time someone in your party crits... isn't that an instant 5 CBs in a raid setting where each person is rolling 40%+?
Anyways, the mace change... We've seen mace spec go from extremely OP and the primary PvP choice in pre 2.0 to Arena season 1. Then it turned into a meh ok spec that still made many people bitch. Now it is the worst PvP spec of all. Not too sure what they are doing here.
As far as WotLK goes I am still really undecided as to what spec will be dominate, but I'm avoiding thinking too much until they at least get all of our talents working.
Those are OP! Cause in
saedo — Fri, 08/22/2008 - 12:15Those are OP! Cause in Polar Bear form, the D.E.H.T.A will come to your aid protecting you and kill off anyone that tries to kill you!
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