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Home › Forums › World of Warcraft General › Theorycraft › Warlock

Moar Affliction Warlocks in 3.3

Scaron's picture

Scaron — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 10:10

So, I've been giddily reading patchnotes for 3.3 and have been quite excited, if a little scared about the complexity of the turn Demo is taking.

Demo changes are what have me excited/anxious, so I thought I'd throw this topic out there to talk Warlock raid/specs.

Based on the latest simcraft numbers it appears that the affliction tree is winning in 3.3 by a nose, this makes sense to me given the buffs specific to the demo tree as well. Now, demo will never compete for numbers, but it's starting to look like the raid might be a little less dependent on SB spam if there are aff-locks out there too.

Here's the issue: It used to be the case that a demo lock would hop into a spellweaving rotation of SB and SoulFire when the target was at less than 35%. A SB hit would enable the decimate buff (causing a faster soulfire cast speed and making soulfire not cost a soulshard), and the ensuing SoulFire hit would eat up that buff. Patchnotes seem to indicate that soulfire is going to refresh the decimate buff, making it possible to spam soulfire for the last 35% of boss health. At about 18K - 20K crits and approximately a 1.5 second cast time, that's a big damage buff for the demo lock.

However, there's a rub. Casters in the raid (at least in salmon) have been relying on my 5% crit debuff applied by improved shadow bolt. It's been nice not to have any mages have to play "scorch bitch". However, keeping up the 5% crit debuff would require a hit to a demo-lock's (read: my) dps when the boss is sub-35% health as every few soulfires the demo-lock will need to toss in a shadowbolt...not the end of the world (especially since the demo-lock's role is raid rather than personal dps), but a dps hit nonetheless. And, perhaps it's a dps hit that wouldn't need to be...

Here's the thing though, IF affliction is going to be the top dps tree anyway, AND we have enough warlocks in raid it seems that getting an affliction lock in raid would keep up the 5% crit debuff AND not sacrifice any dps.

Whaddya think?

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Scaron's picture

Also, my warlock-y friends,

Scaron — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 12:38

Also, my warlock-y friends, there's a nice treatment about how to get the most out of glyph of quick decay / corruption on the last few pages of the affliction warlock raiding guide on EJ.

Here's a rad little excerpt:

As it stands now, when you refresh a
corruption with haunt, it resets to 18 second duration *every time*. So
you'd never have to "cast haunt more often during bloodlust".



However, this leads me to question whether the glyph is atually working
properly. There are 3 basic scenarios that could explain this behavior:




1) When your refresh corruption with haunt, you get a 18 second
completely normal non-glyphed corruption. This makes the glyph
basically useless.



or



2) When you refresh corruption, you get an 18 second corruption that
simply ticks faster than normal (meaning you get extra ticks).



or



3) When you refresh corruption you get an 18 second corruption that
ticks faster than normal based on the haste of THE ORIGINAL corruption
cast, not your haste when you cast haunt.





I have no idea which of those 3 is the current functionality, I just
know that haunt does indeed bump the duration back to 18 seconds every
time. So either the glyph becomes useless, or this is an added perk (it
might even be possible to "roll" a high haste value the whole fight
long).



Edit: Did some testing, it's the third one.



I was able to get a corruption that ticked every 2 seconds to refresh
to 18 seconds on every haunt but keep ticking every 2 seconds. I could
have kept that strength of a corruption rolling indefinitely. That
*really* adds value to engineering for PvE -- since you can get that
glove boost on your corruption all fight long.

don't you guys have keiffer

Kwondre — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 12:55

don't you guys have keiffer as elemental in raid?


I know that Demonic Pact > Totem of Wrath, but from my understanding, the difference in personal DPS for a well-geared Destro/Affliction Warlock is greater than the raid DPS benefit from the difference between Demonic Pact and Totem of Wrath.


Why don't you just go Affliction yourself?

Scaron's picture

If it turns out that this is

Scaron — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 13:23

If it turns out that this is the best for the raid I will.  However, whether it's best for the raid to have DP vs totem of wrath depends in part (large part) how many casters there are that benefit from the increased buff. Salmon likes to bring a metric ass-ton of casters most nights usually at least 2 mages, often 3, 3 or more warlocks, one or two boomchickens and whoever else benefits from the approximately 140ish more SP from DP over totem of wrath--thus, my personal dps sacrifice has to be much larger.

Also, in 3.3 because Demo is getting buffed, and handily so, the dps decrease is less than it would probably have been in 3.2.

You need to think about each

Kwondre — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 13:31

You need to think about each caster you bring.  How many of them are over 2800 base SP (ex ToW or DP buffs)? And by how much? Some may not even benefit from DP because of lack of gear...but if you're raiding ICC, this shouldn't be the case.

saedo's picture

You'd have to examine each of

saedo — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 13:29

You'd have to examine each of the casters you bring.  How many of them are over 2800 SP (without totem/dp buffs)?   And by how much?   There's probably a few that won't see a DP benefit due to gear levels alone.

Scaron's picture

I'm not sure this is exactly

Scaron — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 14:14

I'm not sure this is exactly how the DP buff works (I mean, I could easily be wrong, but it's not my reading). My understanding (borrowed from this thread on EJ) is that the caster's spellpower upon whom DP lands doesn't matter. It's the warlock's sp that matters. Raid-buffed, in combat, I'm usually hovering at around 3.9k sp, meaning that every caster--as I understand the mechanics--gets an 390sp (that's actually probably on the low side) buff when DP lands...this amount goes up and down depending on what lucky buffs I have active when my felguard crits (i.e. lightweave, trinket, etc.)

Now uptime is another question entirely. But I'm curious about another thing re: uptime. What is the average uptime on totem of wrath...does it actually stay up throughout the fight, does it get knocked out periodically? I'm so far from being a shaman, I honestly don't know how this works.  If it goes down from time to time, I'm wondering if totem of wrath isn't about the same uptime (give or take) as DP...or am I all wet on that one?

saedo's picture

Is that how it works?   I had

saedo — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 14:22

Is that how it works?   I had no idea.  lol   But it's easily testable on a Target Dummy.   Grab another caster (with diff sp level) and start the pet attacks and see how much SP he gets.

If it is your SP, then yea, it kinda sounds like DP bitch has to stay in raid. ;p

As for Totem of Wrath, it should be 100% uptime as long as the Shaman is attentive at keeping it up.  Nothing should kill totems in raids.     The shaman just has to put one down just as or before the timers expire.  But the other thing is that people have to stay in range of it.    Which could be an issue in a select few fights.

Scaron's picture

Yeah, I'm almost positive

Scaron — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 14:25

Yeah, I'm almost positive that's how it's calculated (from my reading on EJ)...but next time I'm on and have a minute I'll find a new 80 caster in guild and we'll check it out.

WTF..you used your admin

Kwondre — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 13:32

WTF..you used your admin powers to timestamp your post 2 minutes earlier than mine...I know it!

saedo's picture

FU!   You're just copying my

saedo — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 13:38

FU!   You're just copying my thoughts!

Oh, but back on topic, another thing to consider is uptimes.   As much as you'd like to think it, it's near impossible to get 100% uptimes on the buff.    Looking at parses, it does look to be in the 90-95% range.   So that'd have to be factored in to how much it benefits per person.

saedo's picture

Goddamn you Kwon!

saedo — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 12:57

Goddamn you Kwon!

saedo's picture

You missed Lady Deathwhisper!

saedo — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 12:16

You missed Lady Deathwhisper!

that was just me checking to

Kwondre — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 12:58

that was just me checking to see if you're reading...nice to know you care enough to nitpick meh!

saedo's picture

Well????   What spec for

saedo — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 13:00

Well????   What spec for Deathwhisper then???

HMMMMMMMM...i'd say any

Kwondre — Mon, 12/07/2009 - 13:04

HMMMMMMMM...i'd say any presence of adds = fire/FFB...even if a mage is focus fire on boss, he/she can still Living Bomb the adds to help out...Right now, Fire is only supposed to be 3-5% lower than Arcane on a "Patchwerk" fight...so inclusion of adds (especially grouped up adds) tips that in favor of fire to be at least on par.

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