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Poll
What do you think about no flying for an entire expansion?
YES) It makes me feel more immersed in the game lore.
15%
YES) It encourages more PvP! (Please explain how in comments)
5%
YES) I miss riding my ground mounts.
9%
MAYBE) If you make all of my flying mounts able to be ground too.
8%
MAYBE) if ground mounts are sped up to 200% speed (or higher)
26%
NO) I don't have enough time when I'm on to be riding everywhere
7%
NO) I have spent too much time getting various levels of flying to be wasting it.
11%
NO) It encourages more PVP! (please explain in the comments)
0%
NO) I love flying.
19%
Total votes: 74
Which spreadsheet are you
saedo — Wed, 06/23/2010 - 10:23Which spreadsheet are you using? I use Aldriana's and I have a feeling either you forgot to change the race to account for human racial, or you use a different sheet that doesn't take it into account at all. Cause I still have you better if you drop the 2 Accurate gems cause you're right at the MH cap without them.
The difference between the way you gemmed and the way I recommended is 25.5 dps, so it's closer now.
Oops
SwordandMace — Wed, 06/23/2010 - 14:04I am using Aldriana's, but I totally forgot to add the human race thing. Now seeing that, I still benefit from having 1 accurate, but everything else is glinting for yellow sockets (That's not including bladeborn leggings, which is all arp gems) That's what I'm reading anyway. If I replace the 1 accurate with a glinting, my dps goes down by 3, but I can see the need for getting rid of 1 out of the 2 since that's also a dps loss.
Edit; with just the one accurate gem and the rest glinting, I'm sitting at 25 expertise on my mainhand weapon. So I'm 1 under the cap, but that's fine because I still do more dps with the gemming set up I have currently, which I'm sure is right. Unless I'm just doing some minor thing that's setting us apart by that small margin.
Yea like I said before, you
saedo — Wed, 06/23/2010 - 15:41Yea like I said before, you don't "have" to be at cap. Especially as combat since you have Surprise Attacks to negate dodges on your finishers. It's just another stat, but at least being under means no wasted stats.
Hmm, yes you only needed to change 1 Accurate gem, my mistake, I entered one piece of your gear wrong.
Changing that 1 accurate gem should be getting you +5.5 dps.
Changing both your ArP gems to Glinting in the boots I get +3 dps. But, let's call this an optional step, you can keep the ArP gems. Because this is just showing your ArP is not quite at the level to ignore that +6 agi bonus, but with a one or 2 upgrades, it could shift that way.
And of course, switching that Pristine gem to glinting I wind up with the +0.5 dps. Guess this can be another optional step.
This is where I'm getting
SwordandMace — Wed, 06/23/2010 - 16:25This is where I'm getting confused. I switched the glinting and pristine around, but when I put two glinting in my boots, it's showing as 1 dps under what I would be with 2 arp gems. And generally assuming that we're putting gems in the exact same spots, I don't see how we're getting two different figures.
What's your numbers? Make
saedo — Wed, 06/23/2010 - 16:34What's your numbers? Make sure you're not using heroic version of gear (where applicable), I made that mistake earlier lol.
I have you at 11502.4 dps with the ArP gems. 11505.4 dps with the Glinting gems.
You know what? I may be using
SwordandMace — Wed, 06/23/2010 - 17:13You know what? I may be using an old version of her spread sheet, because my dps numbers by comparison are alot lower than yours, I'm about 400dps off from what you're projecting.
Edit: Actually, it's impossible for me to be using an older version, I must be messing this up, somewhere.
Go into your video settings,
saedo — Sat, 06/19/2010 - 21:55Go into your video settings, can change the resolution to 1600x850.
Your armory... Has a lot of WTF in it. Where to start.....................................
Your first spec is Assassination, but you have no Mutilate. You're not equipped with a main hand dagger, glyphed for Sinister Strike, so, are you trying to be a Sinister Striking Assassintion build? That is wrong in the first place. And even then, you didn't pick up Improved Sinister Strike, and you're all gemmed in a mix of Agi/ArP/Exp. The gemming for that spec is AP and Haste. This is just wrong on so many levels....
Your second spec is Combat, which looks decent and would have been the ONLY choice if you're gonna use a main hand fist weapon. Except, since you have points in Sword Spec still (change that to CQC), and it appears to be a bit more Evis oriented. They buffed Rupture a while back, so Blood Splatter is good again in the spec. The gemming for this is ArP.
Also note, should you go combat, in your mix of combat/mutilate gear, you are probably going to be way expertise capped. 74 rating over capped. So you'd have to change that chest or boots (and gems) to get back under.
Either that or use a main hand dagger and spec into Mutilate. Though in that case, you would want to dump some of that ArP gear if possible, which includes that DBW.
Well, whichever route you wanna go.
In response to this, Armory
SwordandMace — Sat, 06/19/2010 - 22:38In response to this, Armory is Retarded. My main spec IS combat, and those are not the weapons I use. I' pretty much have all agility gems, save for a couple of expertise gems to be capped, that's it. I was transitioning my gear gemming. The gear I have and the way I'm gemmed are different. I'm well aware of what my cap is and etc, I thoroughly research these things.
Ok I see you switched to the
saedo — Mon, 06/21/2010 - 16:14Ok I see you switched to the combat spec. I see the sword and axe.
But everything I posted still holds. You have an evis-oriented combat spec, but Rupture-oriented is top right now. Gemming should be ArP instead of Agi. You are over the expertise cap, but only on the main hand due to the human racial. Drop about 25 exp rating, which means, both your exp gems would do it.
Also, new issue. Mongoose the offhand. This you may not know, but FYI, it has been stealth nerfed. No longer the 2% haste, but only 30 haste rating (and the agi of course). So, since you have a BiS offhand, change that to Berserking.
I took a look and you still
Katzeus — Mon, 06/21/2010 - 15:58I took a look and you still seem to be over the expertise cap. You've got talents into expertise and gems that are basically wasted since you're over cap. Take a look at that, you may have replaced a piece of gear and unbalanced it.
I noticed too that your Mutilate spec has a rupture glyph. I know it's your off spec, but can you explain?
Also, since you have a Deathbringer's Will, I'm curious why you're gemming agi over arm pen. If you could expand on that, and let us know how you figured it out (ie website, etc) then that would give us an some insight, thanks!
Heh Katz. Take a real good
saedo — Mon, 06/21/2010 - 16:15Heh Katz. Take a real good look at that "Mutilate" spec. Look carefully. Rupture glyph is the least of the issues. lol
Wow, I didn't even look at
Katzeus — Mon, 06/21/2010 - 17:15Wow, I didn't even look at the build itself. Swordandmace, could you explain why you would spec like that at any point?
The whole point of that
SwordandMace — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 11:41The whole point of that assassination spec was for me to test something that I was theorizing and testing. It's something I do in my offtime while not raiding. I like trying things to expand on what I know, what works and doesn't work. Looking at that spec altogether is something that shouldn't be noted since I said that wasn't my main spec at all. I never plan on going assassination at any point. My expertise gems have me capped, the only reason it doesn't seem that way is because of my sword, which puts me 3 over the cap. If it wasn't for that I'd be sitting at 26 expertise exactly, which is the cap that I need. I gemmed agility over arp because of the higher agility scaling with kings etc, and in my experience of something I've been testing gemming back and forth, As long as I have 50%+ armor pen, agility is better unless I know for a fact that I can get 80% armor pen without losing other stats that would lower my dps, like expertise and hit. Which right now isn't possible. Feel free to contend me on this, but my dps is solid and this I know for a fact.
OK, thanks for clearing up
Katzeus — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 15:14OK, thanks for clearing up about the offspec. I was just curious, that's all. No one is going to hold experimenting with your offspec against you.
You don't "need" the
saedo — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 12:55You don't "need" the expertise cap per se. And it's usually better to be under the cap than over it, especially as a combat. You have 3 expertise over the cap on your main hand. Guess what, MOST of your attacks are from the main hand, Sinister Strikes included. Best to be under the cap on your main hand.
Also, don't care how you feel, Don't care of your experience. The fact is, ArP scales far better in the combat spec. That is the stat to gem. The more you have, the better it is. Kings is not enough to make agi better. I have no doubt that Agi is better for you at lower gear levels, but you should be past that now especially with DBW. I have no doubt that Agi is better for you if you only play with 1 or 2 ArP gems and "feel" it's a dps drop. ArP is more of an all or nothing thing, you gem it all, you get your dps boost. Gem any less, you won't get that boost.
Your dps may be "solid" from your point of view. But my point of view is that it can be better, regardless of how "good" you are now. Do you have parses? A link to a combat log? Maybe a guessimate on what dps you can do on a Toravon / Saurfang / Festergut type fight?
Anyways, inserting your gear into a spreadsheet I get 11161.2 dps.
Making the ArP switch and other changes I said, gets you 11405.3 dps. Difference of +244.1 dps.
(btw, new change to add would be to switch stark gems to Glinting, and gem all yellow slots for it, and move your Nightmare's Tear to your chest and get the socket bonus there)
Note this does not include the 20% ICC buff.
I'm not really going to argue
SwordandMace — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 14:50I'm not really going to argue with you, I'm going to do what you say. But your lack of respect in how you're saying things is really messed up. I know arp is better when you gem all of your gear for it. I know that it's better than agility in the long run. But don't talk down on me. This game is not my job as you seem to treat it like it's yours. But since I respect you, and clearly more than you respect me, I'll gem like you say. Thanks for letting me know about the mongoose thing by the way, I actually didn't know they changed the haste rating on it.
Ok I may have came off as
saedo — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 16:30Ok I may have came off as elitist. But yea, whatever. I never once called you bad. I didn't go "OMG YOU SUCKZ YOU NEVA GONNA GET BETTA NOOB!"
I see things that can be fixed, ways to be better. I list them. People whisper me and ask me what to do, I respond. Is it anal of me to want everyone I see to be the best they can be? Maybe.
You may have stumbled on a little pet peeve of mine's, and it's that people that think they know things on their own. You may have tested and worked out theories on your own to get where you are, but why ignore the hundreds, if not thousands of players that have already tried and tested things? I myself don't know everything, I rely on the combined knowledge of players, and merely relaying the facts out to people.
And besides, ask anyone in guild, I'm a computer algorithm with no understanding of feelings, cold hard logic is my mistress.
Saedo wasnt trying to hurt
Sargus — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 15:54Saedo wasnt trying to hurt your feelings. His advice is very helpful and you should take it as constuctive critism.
First off I'm going to say I
Elapsed — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 15:14First off I'm going to say I know jack shit about rogues, just going to throw in my two cents and let ya know that in this app process things are scrutinized and discussed at great length you should see the debate between PerfectRaid and Grid when I apped. Just take a step back and don't take it personally but see this as an opportunity to show your intelligence and be able to defend your thoughts.
Chill man, I can assure you
Katzeus — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 15:18Chill man, I can assure you no one means you any disrespect. These discussions happen on every application.
EDIT: I want to add, Saedo took the time to input all your gear and gems into a spreadsheet effectively ending the debate about what method is better dps. For rogues in particular, because our energy cap and regen rate are universal, the spreadsheet is law. He didn't take all the time to do that so he could embarrass you, if you're not actively using it I encourage you to check it out.
My two cents.
Celebra — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 15:20The whole point of the app process is to learn about the app, and for the app to learn about us so I can see how ripping apart his spec and gear and talent choices would fit in.
But let me assure you this does not happen on every app. Rogue apps and some hunter apps....but I don't see it much anywhere else. The elitism reeked in the responses on this app and I commend you on speaking up about your feelings on it.
We are really pushing for recruits and every time I see this type of attitude about an app it fires me up. Apps are people too..... Just sayin..
^
shakos — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 15:21^
Alright, let me just say
Katzeus — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 15:41Alright, let me just say this. I don't know how it is for other classes, I only play a rogue so I really only actively participate with class discussions about that class. The active rogues in this guild are have discussions with each other almost verbatim to the responses in this application every day. We all have a lot of respect for each other and it's very civil. Unlike tanks and healers, dps classes contributions are very easy to measure, you just need to look at a few things. Also unlike healers and tanks, dps classes can quickly and correctly be identified as doing something "wrong" (ie suffering a dps loss).
If you see someone doing something wrong you tell them. It's part of building a stronger raid and helping people be more effective.
This dicussion isn't an "elitest" comment or two, but indictitive of the seriousness that the rogues in this guild approach their role. We welcome you to the discussion Swordandmace, but if you're feeling that it embodies "treating the game like a job" and doesn't jive with you then no one will fault you...but you may not work well with some of the other members of your class here. Better you know now then later....
So what you're saying...
Celebra — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 15:53is that "Heh Katz. Take a real good look at that "Mutilate" spec. Look carefully. Rupture glyph is the least of the issues. lol" is not an elitist comment but merely indictitive of the seriousness that our rogues approach their role?
Idk, I guess I percieved it differently than it was meant.
It is meant as elitist yes,
saedo — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 16:33It is meant as elitist yes, IF that's what he thought a Mutilate spec should look like. But he already explained it was never meant to be a mutilate spec and just a fuck around spec. So write it off.
It became more of a poke at Katz lack of observational skills at that point.
You did. Saedo was
Katzeus — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 16:01You did. Saedo was correcting me for calling it a mutilate spec because it didn't have mutilate in it. I saw the points in assassination and assumed it was built on mutilate, but was mistaken.
Take the time to understand what the comments are based on, the connotation is very different when you have all the information
^
shakos — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 16:03WHYYY CANT WEE BEE FRIENDS WHYYYYYY CANT WEEE BE FRIENDDDDDSSSSS!!!!!!!
I'd love to but urbad.
Celebra — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 16:04I'd love to but urbad.
NO U!
shakos — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 16:04NO U!
I understand the discussions
SwordandMace — Tue, 06/22/2010 - 15:51I understand the discussions and all that, and about what is important. I've already explained everything in detail that should contribute to the fact that I'm researching things, and the way I was responded to might as well have just been said "lolurbad". I know how the guild works essentially, I've been in it before. But they didn't respond to the things I did with douchey comments and saying "don't get butthurt." when I defend myself when I feel I've been disrespected. I appreciate help, but don't be a dick about it. you can be constructive and not come off as a complete asshole. Just as an example, the way you(Katz) and saedo are talking to me are clearly different, and at the moment I respect your opinions more than his, though I still respect them.