What do you think about no flying for an entire expansion?
Elapsed — Sat, 03/08/2014 - 18:38
YES) It makes me feel more immersed in the game lore.
15% (11 votes)
YES) It encourages more PvP! (Please explain how in comments)
5% (4 votes)
YES) I miss riding my ground mounts.
9% (7 votes)
MAYBE) If you make all of my flying mounts able to be ground too.
8% (6 votes)
MAYBE) if ground mounts are sped up to 200% speed (or higher)
26% (19 votes)
NO) I don't have enough time when I'm on to be riding everywhere
7% (5 votes)
NO) I have spent too much time getting various levels of flying to be wasting it.
11% (8 votes)
NO) It encourages more PVP! (please explain in the comments)
0% (0 votes)
NO) I love flying.
19% (14 votes)
Total votes: 74


So, flying was added in TBC
Aeolyn — Sun, 03/09/2014 - 07:37So, flying was added in TBC which was still a very social time period. I met the lion's share of my friends then, befriended and started raiding with an Aussie guild because of the horrific schedule I kept, made friends fighting over Hellfire and forming groups in town for Heroics so we could farm badges.
The social element co-existed with flying. And it did so strongly.
The social aspect didn't drop off hugely until PVE queues happened. Specifically, crossrealm PVE queues. Now we live in an era of crossrealm everything. THIS is the root of the anti-social element, the fact that 95% of the people that you encounter while doing your scenarios or heroics or LFR or just herbing are people who you will likely never see again. It cripples the community. Hell, I can't even form rivalries with major PVPers anymore because most of the notorious ones are from other realms that just use the Real ID system to come gank people on our cluster for easy bloody coins.
I can't form up a group for the Darkmoon Rabbit because resource poachers come from other realms to kill our rares.
I can't bring about major world PVP in most places because people can just phase server when they no longer have the advantage.
I agree that the death of the social experience is a major, major problem.
I strongly disagree that flying is even remotely to blame for that.
Now, tell me that putting us on the ground will fix a single one of the above issues.
You can't.
This social experience point
saedo — Sun, 03/09/2014 - 09:22This social experience point reminded me of a blog I made a few years ago...
/node/10266
This was a great OP:ED piece
Elapsed — Sun, 03/09/2014 - 12:11This was a great OP:ED piece and still mostly stands true to today. But with the question at hand was flying really the death of the MMO side of the game? TBC and Wrath were peoples social expacs. The game has had, imo, many other things now that have taken from the sociality of it. A couple, like LFD and LFR, I feel have hurt the social aspect worse.
But a great article and I recommend everyone read it
For the actual question at
saedo — Sun, 03/09/2014 - 12:42For the actual question at hand, I can only give a limited opinion on this given my absence. I would have to say, yes it played a part, but no, removing it won't magically revive social interaction.
Flying mounts more allowed people to pick and choose their encounters. Before it was only the rogues that can truly ambush or slink away from that Grand Marshall picking flowers in Felwood. With flight, people can afk high in the air with little chance of danger, scout nodes from far away to ambush, or to avoid.
It's like to my points years ago in that blog, with LFD, fully self-sufficient toons, etc, it's another tool in the toolbox of allowing you to run around the entire game without needing to seek help from anyone.
The game has been spoon-fed to the player.
Shatner — Sun, 03/09/2014 - 09:03In playing Wow there is no struggle, no need to align with anyone else except in the most extreme cases. Questing, which at one time was an fun and time-consuming challenge now requires no thinking or skill. You don't need anyone for any reason. This further ruined the social experience and is another reason why non-raiding guilds are drying up. You take that in conjunction with what you offer above--particularly the reference to PVE ques--and we've just started a long list of reasons why the social experience is dying. Forcing people to quest on the ground inevitably makes people work together (or kill each other). It builds camaraderie. As it stands now, there is no challenge in this game unless you are raiding. Simply put: the game is too easy. The flying mount is a representation of this idea. The flying mount is on "killed the social experience" list for the reasons I described in my reference to the Timeless Isle, though it certainly is at the bottom of this list. Now, if you were to take out the PVE que and make it so that a guild would have to form its own 5 mans, I would say that flying is usefull, but this is not the case the way the game is currently designed. In fact, there's no reason to need to fly at all at this time. It is a determinant to the game. The fact you can fly from either end of MoP in a matter of minutes diminishes the beauty and reverence that the game ought to provide. People can't be immersed in a world when they can't bother to step foot on it.
We're never going to agree. I
Aeolyn — Sun, 03/09/2014 - 09:31We're never going to agree. I think the compactness of MoP is actually a good thing. A lot of zones...the vanilla zones especially were big wide fields of nothing. How much of the real estate in Silithus was actually used for anything? Well, the Cenarion Hold. And the gates that lead into AQ were for that world event. That's basically it. Red Ridge? Wetlands? The Searing Gorge, Deadwind Pass, the Swamp of Sorrows. The list goes on forever.
A lot of old zones are big but devoid of anything actually engaging. Or, hell, even fun to look at. A big world is not an interesting one.
But most of the MoP zones use their space much more effectively. The longest stretch of road in Kun-lai is for that escort quest and yeti daily. The tallest mountains have unique catchable minipets and things to click on to read. There are tunnels that go into and under some of the mountains into icy caves or Mogu crypts. Some of the biggest blank spots in the zones are actually spawn points for Sha of Anger; giving them purpose.
The level design is just better. Yeah, okay, you can cross the landmass as a whole in a small handful of minutes but would the game really be better if it simply took twice as long to go from one coast to the other?
They CAN make the ground floor of Draenor interesting. But they won't. I've seen their attempts to make completely flightless areas interesting. Go run around the Thunder Isle for ten minutes. The place is covered in mobs to the point that trying to navigate it without getting a bunch of aggro from everything is like running through a mine field. That alone isn't a problem but there are two issues here.
1) It doesn't age well. Now that the isle is not current the whole place is a clusterfuck to navigate because it was designed with a population in mind that no longer exists. This same issue will plague most / all of Draenor if we stay grounded there all expansion once the initial population thins. Suddenly the "We're encouraged to work together!" thing falls apart because there aren't as many people to team up with around you but the exact same mob density exists. Which leads directly into the other problem...
2) Everything on the isle is now seen as an obstacle. When you don't need the rep anymore or want to do the dailies you just start to view everything as an obstruction between you and wherever it is you're going. This isn't player entitlement or whatever-the-balls either. This is a part of character progression. This is why you roll your eyes when you're playing a single player game and you get into a random encounter with level 10 mobs while your hero is level 75. It's not engaging -- it's just there to waste your damn time.
Flight was added in the first place to give players a freedom of movement and to reach areas like the small islands in Netherstorm or the daily hubs for the Skyguard and the Netherdrakes. There was a point at which flight was actually used to grant players the ability to explore the world around them on a deeper level -- not just mindlessly skip over stuff. We still see flight used in quests and stuff sometimes too; like the sky race event at the Cloud Serpent Riders hub. Flight was supposed to add to the game and give you more options. That's how it was billed to us when TBC was coming out, you know? But somewhere between then and now flight just became associated with skipping everything.
Why?
Flight is just another game design tool that can be used well or used poorly. What we're seeing is that Blizzard either doesn't know how to use it well anymore or just doesn't give enough of a shit to try to use it in a compelling fashion.
You both make strong
Elapsed — Sun, 03/09/2014 - 12:15You both make strong arguments from both sides of the coin that were looking at here.
Now which one of you is going to design a good flight path addon for me?
I voted Maybe, if they make
Elapsed — Sat, 03/08/2014 - 18:42I voted Maybe, if they make flying mounts (most of them, the ones with legs) also ground mounts. I would also appreciate greater speed. But even then I'd prefer to fly as I feel what time we have to play shouldn't be spent on flightpaths not playing or experiencing the game.