In my opinion, the things that killed WoW for me are as follows:

1.) A severe lack of Aspect of the Salmon

 2.) Greater Blessing of Salmon

3.) No epic hams

There's not even an "o" in Blessing of Sacrifice.

edit: Fuckk. Delete delete delete. :(

I like dailies because it sounds like my name. It sounds like "I'm doing dailies" or "I'm doing Dalene" which is hillarious.

When I was in pre-school, we said a little prayer before lunch time "and give us this day, our daily bread" which in my 4 year old mind was "and give us this day, our Dalene's bread"

You have no idea how many times I hid my sandwhich under the table cos I thought the other kids were gonna take my sandwhich or the teacher was going to take it to give to another kid.

Anyways.

Dailies keep Garreth up late so I can fall asleep without having to hear him make falling asleep noises, so they should stay.

I think garreth is PMSing..somebody get a lavender tampon..and I stress it has to be lavender and the power to morph and fight rita replulsa 

Live Every Moment, Seize Everyday

Sweet Baby jesus, people!! I stated an opinion, and that's all it was meant.  I never attacked anyone! :P  I also think that undead rogues ruin the game for everyone and that BE Pallys are Blizzards attempt to pacify whiny Tauren Shamans.

I ALSO HATE FRENCH PEOPLE!

Also, in addition to "Dailies",  I would like to submit my list of all the other things I've seen posted on this and various forums regarding what has "Killed WoW":

1. PvP
2. End game
3. Level caps
4. Gnomes
5. Welfare epics from PvP
6. Legendaries that don't upgrade in TBC
7. Fucking Illumination nerf FUCKING FUCKING FUCK FUCK
8. Warlocks
9. Chain fear
10. Warlocks
11. Gnome Warlocks
12. Eye of the Storm
13. Alterac Valley layout changes for horde
14. Alterac Valley layout changes for alliance
15. Pallys only getting lavendar-colored gear
16. Expansions
17. New content
18. Lorelol
19. Mortal strike
20. Hunters with mortal strike
21. Cyclone
22. Playing the auction house
23. Cloak of shadows
24. Cloak of shadows
25. Being required to quest..

Why I never take these kind of "wah i can't get a group" posts seriously is this: I hear multiple people make them.  Now, if multiple people are complaining that they can't get a group together... who's fucking fault is it?  I think what people are actually complaining about is that there weren't people willing to run THEIR instance at the THEY wanted to for as long as THEY wanted to.  

If only we had a place online where we could gather and discuss and make posts so that we could plan out groups ahead of time, preferably on the "internet". 

Mostly, there is a difference between "complain" and "debate."

For someone that has been on all of a grand total of minutes in the last three months, I would like to please direct you to my last post I made in response to the last post you made complaining about a lack of grouping options.  It hasn't been ported over to the new site, but it goes something like this:

 Shouting for a group to get together based on what your individual agenda is for that night is not how you get groups formed.  It takes time and effort on your part and it possibly takes running something other than the one instance you want that night.

Also, I've found that I've had many an enjoyable daily quest group formed from people I would never have grouped with otherwise.  You don't need a well geared MT to  help you bomb shit in Ogri'la :)

 Once again, let me reiterate: The "WAH I CAN'T GET A GROUP FORMED!!" complaint is beat to death on these forums.  And WE'VE STILL GOT THE BEST GUILD ON THE SERVER IN THIS REGARD.  It's like people that complain about the capitalism and democracy in the US.  I invite them to move to France.  And I know how you feel about France, Popple.

I agree with most of what you said Shihli, but I don't find your opening line to be a "simple solution."  In fact, I would consider it a nonsequitor, because the person who is affected most by the dailies ARE the people that don't, and can't do the dailies yet.  Lets say for a moment that I dislike dailies, and quit doing them.  Now lets say I need a key frag run or other instance for some kind of attunement.  I ask around, but people are doing dailies.  Even though I stopped doing them myself, that didn't prevent other people from doing them, and putting them as a priority over their fellow guild mate.

Personally, I find that dailies are a necessity for full time raiders, as we need the money for repairs, head glyphs, armor patches, and gems.  I also recognize that people need help with instances and quests and I do my best to accomodate them, and there are several Downfallers that do the same as I do, and we take out whatever time we can to help people.  I can personally vouch for Shihli on this one.  I needed help in Netherstorm with a few quests after Hamfist was raiding Gruul I believe, and he stuck around for nearly an hour and a  half just doing 3-5 man quests all over BEM and Netherstorm with me, along with a few other guildies that I don't remember atm.

What I want to finish with saying, is that instances are built to be fun, heroic or not.  I encourage all of you reading this to remember that Downfall is a Community first, and sometimes its easy to forget that.

If you don't like dailies, don't do them.  Simple solution.

And I'll greatly restrain myself from typical commentary regarding how people view the guild and guildies' habits.  It's a dead horse that does not require further beating.  It just seems there's a great deal of malcontention that gets thrown about for one reason or another, and it's invariably "the guild's fault" for not doing something.

For me, I'd be more than happy to help in damn near any case I can.  Just recently I dropped 150g on respeccing back and forth in order to help a guildie with an OHB *PUG* group, by healing on my typically-enhancement shaman.  I helped because they needed it, no other reason than that.

I also helped because right then, I had *TIME* to help.  And yes, while I realize it's easy to immediately assume that because people don't spring to action the instant you ask for help, that no one wants to help, you have to realize that many of our guildies that are online frequently are also core raiders.  And their schedules often look like mine:

1)  Wake up early in the morning
2)  Go to work until 5-6pm
3)  Eat a very fast, likely unheathy dinner at their computer
4)  Go raid
5)  After raid is done (9-10pm), maybe dink around and do a few dailies to hoof repair bills
6)  Go to bed

I do this 5 nights a week, personally.  It's brutal but it's necessary for me, as a raid leader, a raider, and someone who just simply wants to help the raids any way he can.  When I have time to help someone outside of that schedule, then I will do so when I can.

But for the love of <deity>, don't assume the guild's full of selfish pricks simply because not everyone drops everything they are doing at 11pm on a Tuesday to help someone with their umpteenth Black Morass run.

 The one thing I hate more than anything, is the person who wont go to an instance if its not a heroic. 

/g Anyone want to run shadow labs for the keyfrag?

guildie 1: Is it heroic?  (lets not forget the fact that if they are getting kara attuned, its probably not)

original guildie: No

Guildie 1 has logged off.

 Happens all the time. 

I think the majority of people who respond with "busy, bait...er....doing dailies" ARE your hardcore raiders. Hamfist raids 16 hours a week. For those who work M-F, that doesn't leave a lot of "down time". Those people who log on only to do the dailies, do so because they have to afford pots/flasks/oils/food for doing their raid job. 

 However, I am fortunate enough to also have free time mondays and tuesdays during the day, and you can better believe I see the exact same thing coming from non-raiders. This is something that I've been pointing out for months now, but its not the daily.The daily is just the scapegoat.Whats brought people down is selfishness. The daily is just a manifestation of that selfishness. "Oh, you're doing steamvaults? I'm already Exalted, and its not the daily, so there's nothing in it for me". Some people ask if its the daily, because thats the only way they would benefit from doing it, forgetting the fact that the reason someone wants to do it is because they need it. Helping others just isn't reward enough for a lot of people, unfortunatly. 

Getting Dragon Kara attuned, there was a prime example of that. /g Any DPS want to run arcatraz? There were 2 "Is it heroic?" responses, neither one of them said anything else after they were informed it wasn't heroic, even after it was explained it was for Kara attunement.

Now, forgetting the raiders who dont have much other time for gold gathering, its very interesting that non-raiders would use the excuse "I'm doing dailies". There are some people who were quick to interupt their own questing (before 70, on an alt, whatever) to help a guildie. In my mind, levelling is just one long daily. Both questing and doing dailies earns you gold, but why are some people so quick to help instead of questing, but not so quick when doing dailies? Its very odd. 

 Of course, and thankfully, the entire guild does not have this mindset. Sorahn and Derchlon were very helpful in helping my alt with The Atalmal Terrace one day while they were doing their dailies in SMV. They flew over when I was ready, pwned some orcs, then went back to their business. To help my stupid dumbface alt. I also had the help of a very friendly DF shamen, who I cant remember the name atm, but was very friendly. Perhaps it was because I did a check to see what guildies were in SMV and didn't just ask in gchat. Perhaps it was because they felt sorry for me. Perhaps it was cause they owed me for something that I dont know about. Or perhaps, it was just because they went out of their way to be nice. I dont know, but I'm pretty sure it was the latter. 

 No, I dont think dailies have killed the game. I think its just another way for people to manifest their selfishness. If it wasn't dailies, it would be farming (I've been told "busy, farming" before. (Like the stupid elementals/clefthoof/orc/whatever wont be there later....). If it wasn't farming, it would be rep grinding. Point is, its human behavior, not just one aspect of the game, that causes people to say "OMG IT IZNT HEROICS OR THE DAILEE?!?!". 

/flings poop at Garreth

yes popple i know you said not to say this but i am gonna say it anyhow.  Hit me up to do dailies with you. I NEVER do the dailies alone. I find i can make more G faster farmin clefthoofs. And i also hate to do the dailies alone. so i rarely even do em. also.  i hate bombing.  i suck at it.   i do like to banish though.    so hit me up.   you bomb, i banish = win.

I agree.  Dailies make it feel more like a job.  and Downfall does have a huge problem with the "If its not the heroic daily, I dont want to do it"

Popple my free time has ben drained as of late, but if you ever want to run a regular/heroic non daily 5 manner i will be more than happy to provide you with a hunter. 

Live Every Moment, Seize Everyday