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Raid: Hamfist

Raid: Hamfist, invites go out as required by boss.

Tue, 04/22/2008 - 11:30
Tue, 04/22/2008 - 15:30
12 individuals signed up
Netti
saedo
Pyrael
Ewiges
garreth
Dikymo
HBK
Shihli
Minorthreat
Enixa
chrislow
Luminaire
  • Hamfist
  • 25 Man
  • Raid
Dufe's picture

It should lower your dps

Dufe — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 13:25

It should lower your dps maybe, but should do so by increasing DPS time.  If what I've read here is correct, his DPS time was still low.  Also, with Sorahn and Netti both being fire spec, the DPS bias would affect both of them - essentially making it a non-issue when making a comparison between the two.

Karli's picture

Shinso's right Garreth, WWS

Karli — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 11:50

Shinso's right Garreth, WWS parses "dilute" fire mages damage.  From the EJ forums:

"WWS severely misrepresents firespec DPS. The way WWS calculates DPS,
they cut the fight in 5s windows. If you deal any damage during those
window, you gain 5s of dps time. DPS = total_damage / dps time. This
means your fireball dot will dilute your dps because it will always
increase your dps time, which in returns lowers the shown DPS."

 

BTW Jas Netti's fireballs hit for MORE, they just CRIT for less.  This means he has good top end dmg but needs more crit. 

saedo's picture

I wonder if it is still

saedo — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 13:07

I wonder if it is still true though. When was that EJ post made? After 2.4?

Cause the new combat logging system in 2.4 changes that.

It's no longer like:

  • 0:00 Your Fireball dots for 21
  • 0:02 Your Fireball dots for 21
  • 0:04 Your Fireball dots for 21
  • etc, etc

It's now like

  • 0:00 Dot, (funky hash codes), PlayerX, Fireball, 21, 21, 21, nil

But I did a bit more experimenting. With a bit of combat log haxing to ignore that very dot that supposed to lower your DPS due to DPS time calcuations, this is that Teron fight: http://wowwebstats.com/u5tnbnuv5ukoq?s=98-347&m

Found the DPS to be virtually the same.

Karli's picture

Just looking at a quick

Karli — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 11:43

Just looking at a quick analysis between our fire mages Sorahn and Netti, you can see two things. First, Sorahn has a much higher DPS time. This means he is managing to squeeze in more spells. When I play fire I do things like look at how much health a trash mob has left on it and if it is less than 50K, I won't cast a fireball but do maybe a scorch + fireblast. If it's less than 30K I just do a fireblast since nothing I cast is going to hit the mob before it dies.

Other things you can do to increase your dps time is to move around less, the use fire blast when you have to move, use evocation at a well timed section where no one can dps (such as right when Na'jentus puts up his shield), and in Netti's case, you could probably stand to open up sooner since I don't think I've ever seen you creep up into the danger zone of the threat meter at the beginning of the fight. Besides, if you overshoot it you can always go invis.

Netti seems to be using his trinkets and Icy Veins, but I'm not sure if he's using them during execute range like it's best to do. Netti, try and figure out how long a fight may be. Un-macro your trinkets, and them time your Icy Veins, Combustion, and Trinkets so they are ready to use when the boss gets below 20%. Your dps will go up significantly.

And unless you were PvP-ing, I would highly recommend you ditch your gladiators helm and shoulders for something that is higher damage. I for one will pass on both those slots to you since you need them far more than I do. If you can get something w/ spell hit on either or both of those slots you'll be able to change out some of your other hit-heavy items for better ones too.

The other thing I see from the parses and armory profiles is that your crit is EXTREMELY low. If I was to suggest you prioritize anything, I would say get your crit between 35-40% with raid buffs. Even if you lose some top-end damage, you'll see a noticable difference. Crit is a fire mages bread and butter, and you're far too low for where you should be. One easy switch would be to re-gem your items w/ blue gems that take advantage of the socket bonus. IMHO 2 x 9 dmg gems is not worth losing a + 4 dmg socket bonus. Go for the dmg/crit & stam/dmg ones.

saedo's picture

Netti has the T6 shoulders

saedo — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 11:47

Netti has the T6 shoulders iirc.

Shinso's picture

Just to clarify there is a

Shinso — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 11:27

Just to clarify there is a known problem with how fire interacts with WWS DPS values. Long story short if the fire mage cannot chain cast the entire duration of the fight, then the reported DPS value lowers due to the method WWS uses to calculate DPS.

 

Edit: It also apears as if they did not get Heroism during MF range. 

garreth's picture

Isn't that how WWS

garreth — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 11:42

Isn't that how WWS determines... all dps values?  Time spent attacking / damage done = damage per time? 

And, isn't that also my point: Why wasn't someone non-stop chain casting on a non-stop chain casting fight?

Dikymo's picture

If sorahn was in my group he

Dikymo — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 10:54

If sorahn was in my group he didn't get a totem. The new shammy was kind of overwhelmed I think and forgot to drop them. We did get heroism though.

My spec is a little different from the other destro locks. I skipped on the fire talents and took the mana cost reduction talent. The only fire spell I use is searing pain and that is only when I have to tank something. 

 

 

Secretary vice president to the vice president's secretary of the department of redundancy department

starstalker's picture

  Ah, thanks for clarifying

starstalker — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 10:52

 
Ah, thanks for clarifying the point about not using Akama for benchmarking, Saedo.

/flings poop at Garreth

Katibug's picture

This is a really late

Katibug — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 10:39

This is a really late response to you PK, but Chrislow got the constructs first and therefor spent most of his time dead in a corner. For being dead the majority of the fight, him doing more healing than Keisjaa is pretty good. Keisjaa is alot of man...

PS. Apparently I'm doing a shitty job healing.  What are you doing that makes you so high, Vossa?

saedo's picture

For Ewiges, according to the

saedo — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 10:16

For Ewiges, according to the parses, he let SnD fall off 5 times.   Me and Shin weren't perfect either and let it fall of once each.    His gear is a bit behind, but not 256-383 dps behind.   Theoretically his gear set can net him at the 1800s dps on Teron.

Yeah we also have to

TK28 — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 10:05

Yeah we also have to consider we only had one pally, also only one Spriest. This is a win towards our step to Brutalus.

saedo's picture

Sweet finally broke 2K.

saedo — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 10:04

Sweet finally broke 2K. lol And ya know the funny thing, afterwards I realized I forgot to re-flask (ran out a few mins before).

Also for Akama, the dps there doesn't really count as legit dps since Shade gets a stacking increasing vulnerablity debuff when he fights Akama.

Pk's TPS report! 1126 TPS http://wowwebstats.com/agslurvvneizi?s=10411-10659&a=xb58b3b#abilities

garreth's picture

Yeah, I never count Akama

garreth — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 10:17

Yeah, I never count Akama for any benchmarking ;)

garreth's picture

heh, Pk, there are very very

garreth — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 09:57

heh, Pk, there are very very few people we raid with that I'm 100% satisfied with when it comes to their performance/gear/dependability.  You're a triple threat ;)

I think Chrislow got constructs and ran back early to prepare for it.  Thus he had very low healing time. 

Though Saedo is at over 2k dps (I think for the first time, too), I'm just as impressed with Shinzwei: There was a pretty big gap between Saedo and Shin for a long time and now that gap is pretty much non-existant.  

Some questions here, and these are NOT me being a douche, but rather me looking where we can all improve.  I love the Teron fight because it is a PURE meter fight if you don't get Constructs.  So, some questions:

  1. Why is Diky a 1700 dps lock but Tankard is at 1300?  Both have the exact same spec, same crit, similar +damage.  There is a 24 hit rating difference between them, however. I see Diky's shadowbolt hitting for, on average, 500 more than Tank's. I also see 13 more shadowbolts being cast by Diky.
  2.  Wiges, what can we do to squeak out a litte more from you?  I mean, 1600 is fucking awesome, but what will it take to get you to Saedo/Shin levels?  Is it just gear at this point?
  3. Sorahn, did we not have a totem for you on this fight? 1200 is great, but I've seen some much much bigger numbers from ya in the past.
  4. Jorence, I know this was your first time in on this fight, but you've pretty much have only one job on these types of fights.  It starts with a "Chain" and ends with  "Heal" :P  Do what Nhia did here: http://wowwebstats.com/bvlh46ilusveo?s=10411-10659&c=sha  Between the druids and priests we've got "laserheals" locked down.  We need big, cruise-control aoe heals from the shammies!
  5. Kybosh, how often do you have to stop attacking because of threat?  Would it be worthwhile for us to get you a [Nightfall] to swing when you're threat capped so that you can spam hamstring, put up a useful debuff and drop back to safe levels before re-equipping your sword?

I'm really really really trying to get us all up to the same level of "performance" here.  No, we all won't be doing 1800+ dps.  But, I know for a fact that we can all play smarter and better.  Ride your threat cap as close as you can.  I promise I won't yell if you pull aggro every now and then.  It means you're nuking as hard as you can, we like that.  When Pk is in his threat gear, the sky's the limit for the most part.

Overall, I'm quite happy with where the raid dps is at.  But, there are some standouts that I KNOW can pump out some bigger numbers.  Let's really pick it up before our next shots at Illidan.

Yeah I wasn't trying to QQ

TK28 — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 09:26

Yeah I wasn't trying to QQ or anything. Sometimes it's better when your not the center of focus.

Shihli Quote: Fuck you guys

Revised niccer Shihli quote: Fuck you guys :)

Shihli's picture

No one's overlooking your

Shihli — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 09:20

No one's overlooking your phenominal tanking job, Pk :D

Right now we're more concerned with what we can do to fix our low-dps'ers performance.  We know you're an extremely solid tank, and honestly none of us are in a good position to try and improve you, so to speak.  However, folks like Nettibbeb and such - dps'ers with solid gear that are not doing solid dps - need a significant kick in the rear to get them in shape for Sunwell, particularly Brutallus.

Once again PK is overlooked,

TK28 — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 09:17

Once again PK is overlooked, More of a compliment that I'm not being targetted I guess.

I'm looking and is it a bug that Chris only did 6k more healing over Keis?

T

heres also alot of high dpsers like the top 7 then at

the bottom 4 or so it's not going so well granted they did die.

Cisper's picture

Nettibebb's projected Damage

Cisper — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 03:07

Nettibebb's projected Damage Done with 100% Presence (He got a Construct):

30% x  179 728 = 55715.68

179,728 + 55,715.68 = 235,443.

Disrupter's projected Damage done with 100% Presecne (He too, got a construct):

49% x  198 535 = 97,282

 198 535 + 97,282 = 295,817

After doing the Project DPS for ALL people in the raid, Disrupter would've been 7th, Nettibebb still 15th.

I think the real difference, is Nettibebb has about 8-10% less Crits then the other mages, and his Fireballs hit for less, suggesting an overall "Gear Vs. Gear" comparison.

 

garreth's picture

Hmm.  It looks like Netti's

garreth — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 09:01

Hmm.  It looks like Netti's next big upgrade will be helm and shoulders.  Also, Netti, what would it take to get your Sunfire on your MH?  The guild bank can help.

Katibug's picture

Is there a spec that Netti

Katibug — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 10:54

Is there a spec that Netti might be able to go to that might pump out some extra dps?  Frost maybe?

garreth's picture

Is this the first legit 2k+

garreth — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 02:01

Is this the first legit 2k+ dps on a boss fight we've had?

http://wowwebstats.com/bvlh46ilusveo?s=10411-10659

If so, dayumn, grats!

Netti, I love ya man, but I have you REALLY low for every boss kill. What are we going to do man?

This is the pure dps fight we all love, and it really lets us shine: http://wowwebstats.com/bvlh46ilusveo?s=10411-10659

I have mages at #4, #12 and #15 for that fight.  There's something wrong here.  I want you guys to tell me what it is.

starstalker's picture

  I'm not sure if its an

starstalker — Wed, 04/23/2008 - 06:00

 
I'm not sure if its an error or not, but there are 4 people above 2k on Shade that night...

/flings poop at Garreth

Vulk's picture

Good news, the matter

Vulk — Tue, 04/22/2008 - 11:55

Good news, the matter expulsion has ceased. I still feel like I got hit by a bus but can raid!

"We cannot direct the winds, but we can adjust our sails."
Check out my videos at http://hosted.filefront.com/Vulkofgorg

garreth's picture

We'll need ya, Chris. 

garreth — Tue, 04/22/2008 - 11:43

We'll need ya, Chris.  Also, good job putting on so much more stam.  I can tell you've been working pretty hard.  Make sure you've read up on Naj'entus to Reliquary of Souls.  We'll be moving very quickly tonight.

There for if ya need me.

chrislow — Tue, 04/22/2008 - 11:38

There for if ya need me.

Vulk's picture

I might not be able to make

Vulk — Tue, 04/22/2008 - 07:08

I might not be able to make it today because something I ate yesterday at the museum gave
me food poisoning and all the lovely expulsion of matter that goes with
it. I'm hoping I will start to feel better later today but I am unsure if it will happen. Sorry guys.

"We cannot direct the winds, but we can adjust our sails."
Check out my videos at http://hosted.filefront.com/Vulkofgorg

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