Downfall - "Droppin bombs since '04"

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You know, you're going to want me. Or.. I hope you want me.. Wait, I mean-I mean, oh god.. Well anyway, 70 Mage - Adoron.

Anonymous — Sun, 04/27/2008 - 12:06

Character Info
Name: 
Adoron
Server: 
Gorgonnash
Race: 
Human
Class: 
Mage
Role: 
DPS
General Questions
Which days are you available for organized guild events? (Raids, RBGs, etc): 
Friday
Saturday
UI
Which addons do you consider essential and why?: 
Well.. the only mod I really use is AtlasLoot. That's it, and that's what I've always used. Care to renovate me? Go ahead. =)
PvE
Raid Experience: 

I've cleared every instance that I've attempted multiple times, except for a few that I've just never set foot into for some reason, namely: Heroic... Auchenai Crypts, Shadow Labyrinth, Steam Vaults, and Arcatraz. I don't know why, I've just never picked up a group for them, but I typically breeze through instances.

If you mean raid instances, I've been in multiple fairly successful PuG's in Karazhan (to the point in where I know just about how all of the bosses operate, except for a few), but the guilds that I've been in have never exactly maintained a great schedule for raiding. I've worked up to the 2nd boss in ZA a couple times, I've been in a Gruul and Mag PuG (which failed in the beginning =/), and in The Eye (with Inevitable Force) I've downed Void Reaver first try, and gotten Solarian to 33% in one run, I know how those work.

Personal
What timezone are you in?: 
California (o' you know what).
Tell us a little about yourself.: 

Why don't you learn more about me via direct contact? Or virtual contact I should say.. or vent.. but anyway:

Some quick facts are..

You can call me Adoron, for now.
I'm 17, and about to move up to 12th grade (with a 3.8 GPA)
I have multiple hobbies (as listed below) and am always willing to incorporate more.
The music I love would have to pertain to certain genres, such as Indie/Alternative/Techno(trance)/Jazz/some rap, you know, typically relaxing music. But hey, don't get me wrong, System of a Down and Rage Against the Machine aren't bad at all either. Some of my currently favorite bands include Bloc Party, Nujabes, Daft Punk, DJ Tiesto, and much more.

The rest of the 'about me' would be better gained through talking to me, if you wish to do so.

Open/Closed: 
Closed

True, true, yet I could use

Adoron (not verified) — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 22:59

True, true, yet I could use those items for other purposes anyway.  I'll keep that gem in mind though, I used to have that.

 So to gain entrance, pretty much, those are my goals listed above? (the surface of it all at least)

Karli's picture

Switch out [Scryer's

Karli — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 22:15

Switch out [Scryer's Bloodgem] for the [Airman's Ribbon of Gallantry] and you'll be set.  Besides, that item proc doesn't work raid mobs/bosses anyways.

 

Oh damn, I made a typo. 

Adoron (not verified) — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 20:01

Oh damn, I made a typo.  *Flametongue Seal

Yeah, I believe that we both

Adoron (not verified) — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 19:58

Yeah, I believe that we both have the same idea in mind for what I lack in overall.

 

I just read the article on Wowwiki about spell hit, and understand a great deal more of it, and well, now I'm just waiting for my gear to come in is all.  I've got about 3 pieces of gear in store, as well as badge aims for even more spell hit.

 But really, that appears to be my only flaw at the moment, just missing one piece of gear.  When I answered Q#2, well, I kind of implied that I would already be switching to that spec (and putting full points in it, of course), so I guess that's why I didn't mention it.  But I am going to focus on it undoubtedly.

 So then all I really can do for now is just run Heroic Magister's Terrace over and over hoping for  http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34607, so that I can finally respecc and put on all my 'raid-worthy' gear (well, in comparison to my current set at least).  It's such a pain going through there over and over.  I think that the run I just completed minutes ago must have been my 9th run in a row without seeing either the shoulders or trinket drop =/.

Aside from that, I'll go download your guy's raid package and inspect all the new doohickeys.  Maybe I can get used to them while running H MgT over and over. /sigh

 As of now I have 132 hit rating, and when I acquire  http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34889 and  http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34918 , I'll have around 170 of it, as well as elemental precision of course. 'Nother 112 badges to go then. Oh wait, I would have to replace my offhand with a flametounge seal. 137 badges!

Well, until then, keep a good eye for me if you will! =) 

Karli's picture

My overall suggestion to

Karli — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 18:17

My overall suggestion to move your application forward, Adoron, is the continue to work on your gear and show us that you are working on gear that will do well in RAID (i.e. hit capped).  Keep reading up on all things mage, and please keep us updated on your progress.

Karli's picture

Adoron, Overall you answered

Karli — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 18:15

Adoron,

Overall you answered my questions very well!  As I said, I was trying to establish a baseline level of your knowledge so I could give you the best feedback.

The reasons I asked you both about spell hit and binary spells are because 1) Spell Hit is the #1 thing that affects your dps, more than spell dmg, crit or anything else; and 2) Spell Hit is ever MORE important for frost, because frost spells, unlike fire or arcane, are binary.  This means you either do all your damage, or a big fat zero. Just as an FYI, fire and arcane can hit for 100, 75, 50, 25, or 0%.  Low spell hit on a frost mage = lose.

There are plenty of places where you can learn more about spell hit, but considering it is the best way to up your dps and so fundamental to your class, it is usually where I start w/ a newbie mage.  Even more so if you're frost.  

You'll often hear the term "hit cap."  Question 2 was "what about your current build is NOT ideal for raiding."  The answer I was looking for is that you do not have 3 points in Elemental Precision.  This talent point gives you a free 3% spell hit, lowering the amount you need to be at "cap" from 202 to 164.  Please refer to this great article on wowwiki for a more in-depth explanation.  http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Spell_hit_chance

You do seem to understand the general notion of spell hit, but as a mage who wants to raid with us, I would make this the first area that you master =).

Another thing I will comment on is the phenomenon of poorly geared/skilled mage ---> low aggro + better gear ----> dead mage (who does not know how to manage aggro).  As you gear up and learn how to play your mage better, you WILL start having to deal with aggro quite a bit more than you are used to.  Any good caster DPS learns how to master the dance of doing as much dps as humanly possible, without pulling aggro.  Get omen.  Get it now.  Start to learn more about how aggro works mathematically (especially since you say you like math!!).  To put it bluntly, you cannot be a good caster dps in raid unless you can manage your aggro.  It is not simply enough to wait for a mob to start chasing you; you have to learn how you can anticipate such a thing and PREVENT it.  When you're raiding, mages who pull aggro can wipe the raid and trust me, you'll get yelled at for it.  And "I didn't mean to" is not going to cut it.  Omen is your friend =).

And since you likely do not know it, there is a different % that pulls aggro based on range.  If you are in melee range, you will aggro a mob if you go over 100% of your tank's threat.  If you're farther away, however, you have to reach 130% to pull aggro off your tank.  When you configure Omen, you may wish to change the "warning" notification up from 90% (which I think is the default) to 120% or so. 

Oh, I've also got a belt of

Adoron (not verified) — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 17:33

Oh, I've also got a belt of blasting in store. :)

Grasen's picture

git our raid pack and git

Grasen — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 17:55

git our raid pack and git famialuer with the mods.    Before we consider apps we expect them to be current on the mods we use.    feel free to post about any mods you need help with.  weather you git accepted or not you will be a better player for it :) Thank you.

Oh god.. hahaha that weapon

Adoron (not verified) — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 17:31

Oh god.. hahaha that weapon is definitely a joke, I'm sorry I forgot to change it. No no no, the armory doesnt have it up at the moment, but I use a Nathrezim Mindblade with +40 spell damage on it, and Sapphiron's Wing bone, which gives +12 hit rating and +51 frost damage.

Oh, and to add real quick, I guess that's one of the main things that I didn't get across clearly enough in the app.. About willing to change my playing style, well, I can have fun with what I do in any way I want. To be honest, I was actually going to apply once I get those shoulders out of H Magister's Terrace, because then that will allow me to correctively respecc. to a moreover raid-suited talent tree (obviously I want to raid, haha). But with what I've got now, it would look pretty awkward to have some shoulders on that literally only give me 15 int., 21 stam., and 8 spell dmg. (basically) towards fire. But, I just wanted to see sooner if I could get in despite my faults and hopefully work towards that goal with a new guild.

So to answer your questions:

1) Why do you like to be frost? What does it do for you? I've never been a very 'adept player', in where I know every knook and cranny about my class, but 'ever since the very beginning I've wanted to level with frost. I had an old mage on another account (which I don't own anymore sadly), which I was fire on, and so I wanted a change.

I enjoy frost because, primarily, of the slowing effect. While levelling I've done massive AoE pulls, kited enemies all over the place, and had a fairly leisurely time in instances with it (if I'm ever screwing around in the game in an instance (you know, just as a joke) I might purposely agro a monster, but because of the slow effect I can usually freeze them in place and back off; I wouldn't do that in a serious siutation though, of course). I've just never gotten around to changing it, and seeing how I have this Frozen Shadowweave set, well, I've always been kind of screwed on even going fire with decent damage. Frost has just never really been an issue to me, I have fun with it, but it might be a good time to try something new.

But I've been getting bored of frost, and I'm willing to switch to a 'more-suited raid spec.' to fill in for what's required. Icy/Fire sounds pretty interestingly DPS-worthy.

2) (Giving you an out here...) What about your current build is NOT
ideal for raiding, and what about it would you change to make your
character perform better in say, a Gruul's or Kara or Mag?

Well, when raiding, I've always noticed that my DPS is kind of at the bottom (in Gruul's for instance, usually I'm on top in Kara or ZA). Saying that, I'm lacking the preferred spec., dps I could be dealing, hit rating, and some of the gear. I'm working on revamping my build in this sense, and I'm getting fairly close, but overall, I'm willing to change what I have to gain entrance to what I desire.

So: Up the hit rating, change the spec., change some gear, etc. etc.

Now onto your gear and other game-play things. There is a piece of gear you were wearing that is, to be blunt, a big "no no"'.

^^

:P

3) Tell me if you think you know which items I'm talking about
(again, giving you an out here...). I'll give you a hint: the fact that
you enchanted it with a certain enchant made me cringe. A lot.

Yes, yes, I've changed it.

4) Please tell me what you know about spell hit and why it's important. Go into as much detail as possible.

Well, the higher the hit rating I have, the more likely of a change I am to hit an enemy harder, and not be resisted, basically. For what I used to do (before actually putting the idea of raiding into thought), I never really had to focus on hit rating, just all the more dps. That takes down simple non-elites after all, right?

Yet as said earlier, I'm willing to resocket some things, purchase hit-rating gear based gear over crit gear (some of those new badge items are pretty sweet), or anything to push it forward. That's my understanding of hit rating, at least. If I'm missing something, I'd like to know =).

5) Do you know what a binary spell is?

Mm.. looking at the comments below it appears to be a spell that is completely resisted, or not at all resisted.

I've never actually heard of a binary spell.. nor had an encounter where the knowledge of what a binary spell may be useful, except for maybe.. throwing a frostbolt at a water elemental? I'm not too clear about what it is, but from what I see, well, fire doesn't affect fire and water doesn't affect water, typically.

6) What spells and/or spell rotation do you normally use? What kinds of things would make you change this up?

Basically with frost, all I have to do is spam frostbolt, freeze the mobs if they get too near, maybe poly one, summon my water elemental if I need some extra damage (frost bolt + an immediate ice lance can rack up some pretty heavy damage, about 6k or higher in one instant), and that's basically it. That's what my spec brings me anyway, the rest falls into place if needed, ice block/invisibility to kill threat, icy veins for added spell haste, you know the rest.

Well, I'm willing to completely change my current spec., receive tips on anything that I should be doing while being under a 2/48/11 talent spec (other than what I already know about fire). Pretty much with any necessary changes that need be made, I find necessary, put simply.

I've noticed you're basically using a stock user interface.

7) Are there any addons you use to help you play better? What are they?

Any addons that will benefit my raiding approach (I noticed you have a set raid pack, I was going to look into that just to see what I would be dealing with if allowed in), addons that benefit my non-raiding experience that I'm not too educated on, and literally anything recommended that I find useful or inevitable to have. I've never been too knowledgable on addons, I've always had an easy time with what I've been doing in the game. Change might be nice.

8) How do you manage your aggro?

I don't agro mobs very easily, since my dps isn't too strong in this sense, and typically the groups I'm with have the threat under control. But when I do agro mobs, I freeze them on the spot; if it's resisted then I either cold snap/freeze or summon my water elly to freeze them back. I could ice block, throw up invis., and these simple methods almost always send the mob back to the tank to grab. If I were to agro a boss in a raid (which I plan on never doing, lol), I would ice block immediately and just hope I didn't screw anything up too badly, and hope that the raid regains inital agro, since that's basically the best thing I can do.

I've heard that Omen is a great addon for maintaining your agro, so I'll definitely look into installing that for raiding purposes and whatnot. Other than that, I'm not very prone to agro'ing mobs.

Hm, that was pretty extensive. Oh, and it's 42, pfft. Math's probably my favorite subject.

 

saedo's picture

Well um on Binary Spells

saedo — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 17:42

Well um on Binary Spells again.  Guess you didn't understand.

How bout this, do you know what a partial resist is?

If you do, then what Binary Spells are, is that they can't have a partial resist.   You either do full damage with a binary spell, or if it's resisted, zero damage with it. 

garreth's picture

I think he's just being cute

garreth — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 08:46

I think he's just being cute with weapon equipped ;)

Agoney's picture

Answer the questions!!!

Agoney — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 08:33

Answer the questions!!!

Karli's picture

You guys suck, the GUILD APP

Karli — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 08:03

You guys suck, the GUILD APP was supposed to answer the questions....  cheaters. Tongue out

lol! <3 Pulga. My mage

Ardea — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 06:55

lol! <3 Pulga. My mage has one too... I was going to put Mongoose on it... but I used the mats for my rogue instead.

I put together a whole set just for the mana worms in Kara. I think my guild app said "the mindblade never dropped but I have the.... and the Malcazeen" too bad I can't duel wield.

 

 

pulga's picture

Dude, you need to fix that

pulga — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 03:52

Dude, you need to fix that now before even being considered.  If you don't know what I'm talking about (it's the same thing karli is talking about) you've got no chance.  Sorry to be blunt.

Shihli's picture

A binary spell = a spell

Shihli — Sun, 04/27/2008 - 22:17

A binary spell = a spell that is either fully resisted, or fully un-resisted.

saedo's picture

Also to add to that, Binary

saedo — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 01:11

Also to add to that, Binary spells occur when the spell has a secondary non-damage effect to it, such as slowing. That incurs the resist it completely or no resist at all effect.

saedo's picture

Uh oh, now Karli needs a new

saedo — Mon, 04/28/2008 - 01:07

Uh oh, now Karli needs a new skill-testing question for him.

I suggest: 63 + 8 * 5 - 61 = ?

mav's picture

California

mav — Sun, 04/27/2008 - 21:02

California represent. 

WARNING: This post will probably contribute absolutely nothing to the conversation, it will only waste a few seconds of your life. Mavandon's shenanigans should not be taken by children 10 and under or adults over the age of 70.

Aidin's picture

5) Do you know what a binary

Aidin — Sun, 04/27/2008 - 20:58

5) Do you know what a binary spell is?

Is that a trick question...lol

 

(the grilling is much worse for paladins...Karli's cutting you some slack! lol) 

Karli's picture

Hello Adoron, and thanks for

Karli — Sun, 04/27/2008 - 20:39

Hello Adoron, and thanks for apping! I'm one of the mages in Downfall, and so I will try to break down my response into two sections. And, IMO, they are in order of importance =).

First, for a 17 year old, you sound very mature, and I really liked that although you were honest about apping to several guilds, you actually took some time to research Downfall and even found the article done on us last summer. That says to me that while you have maybe spent some time looking for a new place to call home, you're not just desperately applying everywhere and took our application process seriously.

Second, let's talk about mage stuff. I have written a very comprehensive guide that you can find in the "Handbook" section. It's still being revised (check back on Monday, I'll post what I've been working on then), but there is a lot of helpful info in there.

A lot of the approach is from a maximizing standpoint (math & proven ways to do top dps), but I also believe that if you're not playing the way YOU like to play, it's not as much fun. That being said, I'd like you to answer two questions:

1) Why do you like to be frost? What does it do for you?

2) (Giving you an out here...) What about your current build is NOT ideal for raiding, and what about it would you change to make your character perform better in say, a Gruul's or Kara or Mag?

Now onto your gear and other game-play things. There is a piece of gear you were wearing that is, to be blunt, a big "no no"'.

3) Tell me if you think you know which items I'm talking about (again, giving you an out here...). I'll give you a hint: the fact that you enchanted it with a certain enchant made me cringe. A lot.

4) Please tell me what you know about spell hit and why it's important. Go into as much detail as possible.

5) Do you know what a binary spell is?

6) What spells and/or spell rotation do you normally use? What kinds of things would make you change this up?

I've noticed you're basically using a stock user interface.

7) Are there any addons you use to help you play better? What are they?

8) How do you manage your aggro?

 

That should be enough for now. I already think you have done a good job with the personality-related aspects of your application, so now I'd like to know more about how you play your class.

As a disclaimer, just know that I'm not trying to trap you into giving wrong/"dumb" answers, I know everyone starts somewhere and it's more to establish a baseline level of knowledge so we can see how to help you improve =).

1) Why do you like to be

Disrupter — Tue, 04/29/2008 - 09:16

1) Why do you like to be frost? What does it do for you?

 Two ice blocks for when I pull aggro instead one one ;).

2) (Giving you an out here...) What about your current build is NOT
ideal for raiding, and what about it would you change to make your
character perform better in say, a Gruul's or Kara or Mag?

Need three iceblocks instead of two.

3) Tell me if you think you know which items I'm talking about
(again, giving you an out here...). I'll give you a hint: the fact that
you enchanted it with a certain enchant made me cringe. A lot.

*COUGH* Intellect, chest *COUGH* 

4) Please tell me what you know about spell hit and why it's important. Go into as much detail as possible.

124 hit cap for frost gooooo! 

5) Do you know what a binary spell is?

Wat? 

6) What spells and/or spell rotation do you normally use? What kinds of things would make you change this up?

.... Frostbot..... frostbolt.... and... more... frostbolts..... 

I've noticed you're basically using a stock user interface.

7) Are there any addons you use to help you play better? What are they?

OMEN 

8) How do you manage your aggro?

Refer to question #1.

 

XD Couldn't resist, (too much spell hit :P ) 

Karli's picture

Lol rupter I thought they

Karli — Tue, 04/29/2008 - 09:43

Lol rupter

I thought they fixed the hit cap bug for frostbolt?  And, you should try Rawr sometime, it's what told me that for my spec the 10 int > 12 dmg.  So neener.  I've got a gazzillion spell dmg these days anyway, I'm a fan of not going oom as quickly. 

Shinso told me bout Rawr a

Disrupter — Tue, 04/29/2008 - 09:50

Shinso told me bout Rawr a while back, tested it out, and knowing Garreths lust for mods/programs/addon's that increase raid dps output, I passed it along to him.

I stilllll don't get.... intellect.... *shiver*

Dufe's picture

One of the biggest reasons

Dufe — Tue, 04/29/2008 - 13:00

One of the biggest reasons that basic stats (Int/Spirit) get passed up in alot of the common theorycraft models that we're more used to is because alot of those models don't include fight time as a part of the function.  Rawr does.  In adding time, mana and mana regen become huge.  My own messing around in Excel trying to adjust for fight length before I found Rawr already told me that for Arcane, mana and mana regen had huge potential to add dps.  It makes perfect sense, more mana per fight = more AB spam.  (Int adds regen, evocation mana, dmg, a little crit AND more base mana - that's 5 things from one stat. Also dont' forget that as Arcane a 10 int gem = 11.5 int from talents, and even more if you have Kings.)  When I've put my gear into rawr with a frost or fire build, Int drops way lower in importance, as would be expected since they aren't as mana constrained.

garreth's picture

Wins for best title ever ;)

garreth — Sun, 04/27/2008 - 13:05

Wins for best title ever ;)

It's very literal =)

Adoron (not verified) — Sun, 04/27/2008 - 13:59

It's very literal =)

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