Divine Spirit
Amenn — Tue, 06/24/2008 - 13:38
I've been thinking about Improve Divine Spirit and how valuable that is to the raid, versus the value of Circle of Healing. My opinion is, given LF1M's current raid setup, circle of healing far outweighs the value of Divine Spirit, but I wanted to open the topic for discussion.
When it comes to healing in a raid there are basically three healing tasks: Tank Healing, Healing random burst raid damage, and healing raid-wide damage.
Tank healing is self explanatory, dropping big heals on Grov. Paladins and Druids are the kings of this, but Priests are decent at it. Greater Heal is fairly mana efficient, heals for a reasonable amount, and when properly pre-cast is generally an effective healing tool. Priests are much more latency susceptible than a Druid or FoL paladin (and roughly equally latency susceptible as the big heal paladins) performing the same roll, but they're certainly adequate.
Random burst raid damage is the situation in which a random target in the raid takes a sudden burst of damage and needs to be rapidly healed up. Rage Winterchill's ice bolt is a good example of this. Paladins are probably the best at this, with FoL, but Priests also shine here with Flash Heal (which, given the new mana regen model is viable) and the accidental bounces of a shaman's chain heal are very effective here.
Raid-Wide healing is healing up damage that has been dealt to everyone in the raid, or a significant subsection of the raid. There are many, many examples of this, particularly for melee DPS. Here, with a few specific exceptions, shaman are the absolute kings. Chain heal mops up this kind of damage quickly and efficently. Circle of Healing priests also shine here, doubly so in situations where groups can be stacked to get all effected targets in the same group, in close proximity (Blood Boil, Voidreaver). Healing damage like this without the benefit of Chain Heal or Circle of healing is much more time consuming, much more dangerous (as you're healing one target at a time, rather than many targets at once, for a lesser amount), and generally more frustrating.
In these three scenarios, Circle of Healing is beneficial in only one. However, in that one scenario it is incredibly powerful. I personally feel that it is inferior to Chain Heal in most of those situations, but it's debatable, and quite close regardless.
Based on this there are two reasons I think I should keep Circle of Healing:
1) We don't have enough raid-wide healing. We have 1 or 2 resto shaman on a good night, and 0 on a bad night. Trying to have another healer fill that role is virtually impossible, as we saw on Naj'entus the other night. If Capt and I had been Divine Spirit spec, I do not think it's reasonable to believe that we could have kept group 5 alive.
2) The content we're working on now (tier 6) is packed with fights that require raid wide healing.
Now, if we had 3 resto shaman on a consistent basis, I would change my opinion. In fact if we have a night where we have 3 resto shaman I might respec to DS just to try it out. However, I don't think that's likely to be in our future. Given that, I think that it is more important for me to retain the flexibility to heal raid wide damage than it is to have Improved Divine Spirit in the raid.
That said, let's talk about the value of Improved Divine Spirit. The max rank group buff provides everyone in the raid 50 spirit (55 with kings), and turns 10% of your spirit into + damage/healing. In the best case senario that's going to be something like +40 spell damage for our DPS casters, +50ish healing for most healers, +70 healing for druids and priests who stack spirit like mad, and + 14 healing to all healing spells cast on the tank (tree of life buff).
My question is, what does that mean for raid DPS? If we gave every DPS caster 10% of his spirit as +damage how much would that actually increase the DPS of the raid as a whole? I don't think the answer matters until and unless we get some more consistent raid-wide damage healers (i.e. more priests or more resto shaman), but I'm curious.

In all actuality, and on a
Comment — Sat, 07/12/2008 - 11:24In all actuality, and on a personal addition to raid, CoH is indeed a better spec to go just due to the versatility that you gain as now being a druid and a shaman combined - in the sense that druids can move constantly and shamans can heal mass targets at a time. However, as you did mention in your post, if the raid was to pick up a substantial amount of CoH healers, it is more beneficial to the raid that you play a more PvP specced play style - in the sense that with the abundance of incoming heals the Imp DS would be a small raid DPS increase while ALSO! speccing down to Pain Suppression. Having 1 amazing Disc priest in raid is just as good as having a good tank. Having a good Disc priest is great when your tank is taking a truck load of damage, or your healers get in a bind of some sort and you're able to toss that damage reduction up... it's just really nice. Not to compare us to Blood Faith, but they really are a decent bunch of people when it comes to raiding. They use a Disc priest in the majority of their raids if the other healers needed to do it are present and it pays off. I know that raiding without a Disc priest is possible, but so is raiding without mods. All it does is make it a little bit more comfortable or accessible or easier or whatever word you'd like to use.
That's my 2cp :P
yeah looks like i am the one
Sorreah — Thu, 06/26/2008 - 13:14yeah looks like i am the one and only imp ds for hamfist and it will probably stay that way for awhile ( may need to switch fir felmyst ) but it is just a different healing style almost paladin type (probably why i dont mind)
you become a much more focused healer being a huge help on tanks and single target healing while a lot less efficient on group healing
so much versatility just in one spec of one class makes me sad for some others
They are both useful as
Magic — Thu, 06/26/2008 - 10:20They are both useful as hell. If you can keep up with the pacl with Imp DS, AND you have enough CoH Chain behind your back, it's a great added buff for everyone in the raid. I typically hear/read raids should try to run with 1 coh and 1 DS. Never works out that way because of switching in and out and on nights and subs etc...but it's a decent goal. Get's pricey on the respec side to go back and forth, but I find the gear works out about the same.
Wait until you see the
starstalker — Thu, 06/26/2008 - 07:18Wait until you see the bloodboil fight, Sharaz fight, Illidan fight, Reliquary fight, or Kalecgos. On all those fights, at some point during the fight groups will be bunched together taking damage, and CoH is absolutely insane in these situations. You might not see this now, but in a month or so when LF1M rocks illidan, you will see just how OP it is for yourself.
And also, donuts.
I ran Imp DS last night,
Amenn — Wed, 06/25/2008 - 12:57I ran Imp DS last night, because we had 3 resto shamans and a CoH priest show up. Seemed like a good time to try it out.
It definitely made healing less fun, which kinda sucks. I'm not sure how much it hurt my actual effecieny. Certainly, my healing on trash mobs was WAY down, but that's a lot less important than healing for boss. If we had not had 4 other strong raid healers for Naj'entus I would have severely missed the presence of CoH. For Supremus I don't think it actually matters. My healing on Supremus is virtually all renews and GHeals on the tank.
I think my overall assessment remains the same: Imp DS is worth it if you have 3-4 consistent AOE healers (resto shamans/CoH priests). If your raid is short of AOE healing, then CoH brings more value.
There are certain fights (bloodboil) where CoH is so dominate that you really want every priest CoH to learn that specific fight. Outside of those fights, however, I think Imp DS has a lot of value, again assuming you have enough AOE healing in your raid to begin with.
And yes, I agree Prayer of Healing is awesome, for Naj'entus especially it's extremely powerful. Much more mana/time effcient than CoH. But you can only Prayer up one group, you can CoH up many.
Circle of Healing beats
Cisper — Tue, 06/24/2008 - 22:42Circle of Healing beats Divine Spirit on many accounts beyond SSC & TK. As you being Mount Hyjal & Black Temple (as you've seen), the damage to the raid is substantial, as you progress, the damage increases and also forces you to be mobile.
Circle of healing - personally - if superior then its Chain Heal rival due to its Instant Cast (allows movement), hits more people, more controlled and can be spammed whilst maintaining Priesty efficiency.
Fights like Reliquary of Souls, Gurtogg Bloodboil, High Warlord Naj'entus, Kaz'rogal, Illidan Stormrage, Mother Shahraz, the spell is absolutely overpowered and completely out weighs the slight buff.
Don't even get me started on its OPNess in Sunwell. Srsly.
im currenty imp ds you and
Sorreah — Tue, 06/24/2008 - 16:56im currenty imp ds you and am looking at about a 25-45 spell dmg imcrease to all casters and a 90-130 healing increase to priests druids ( paladins tend to fall in the dps caster range ) now my healing number are WAY below the circle of healing guys and in your current content it seems that learning those fights is made far easier with CoH but i think their is a large benifit to the overall raid from carrying at least 1 Imp Ds priest if your given situation can sacrifice the aoe healing
Dont discount the power of PoH it can definatly do the job if you dont have to be running
those are the numbers i have been looking at
I know that it's a
garreth — Tue, 06/24/2008 - 15:00I know that it's a significant buff for arcane mages. They really benefit a ton from it. But, having the pure raw healing power is more important at this point.
I really feel like I cannot
Amenn — Tue, 06/24/2008 - 14:49I really feel like I cannot spec out of CoH until/unless we pick up 2-3 more regular resto shaman or CoH priests. I just don't think we have enough raid healing to do it. I'm curious to learn what it is we're giving up with imp DS though.
Considering LF1M is coming
garreth — Tue, 06/24/2008 - 13:47Considering LF1M is coming up on Bloodboil, CoH is REQUIRED. Groups will be built so that each takes the debuff as a full group. This means that the CoH priest gets nearly 100% use out of CoH and almost trivializes the fight. Shammies handle raid-wipe mop-up. The two strongest paladins chain cast Holy Light 11 on the fel rage target (go oom!!!!) when it's up and the druids non-stop full-stack HoT the two or three main tanks (with help from the pallys and shammies where necessary).