Politics
Wolfie — Sat, 10/11/2008 - 13:21
I don't know if any of you have noticed the recent influx of political debate in trade channel, but it makes me ashamed to an American.
I recently submitted at GM ticket, and after the matter was settled, the GM asked me, "Is there anything else I can do for you." So I thought to myself, yes... yes there is something he can do for me.
I replied to the GM's question with "There is a multitude of people debating the upcoming election in trade channel. The statements and arguments are uneducated, not backed by any facts, and in all regards assanine. These people are doing nothing but parroting what they hear from mommy and daddy and their "objective" news channels. They have done none of their own research and are making ignorant, blanket statements that are often times completely false, racist, or altogether made up on the spot. They are making both parties look bad and making me want to move to a different country. I want you to kill them."
After a lengthy pause in our conversation the GM replied with "That is a harsh punishment for giving one's oppinion even if misguided. But, I will look into it."
Now, I know nothing will be done, and ignorance breeds ignorance.... but I like to imagine a GM walking around as Arthas Menethil-the Lich King- mowing idiots down with the Frostmourne as they beg for their annoying lives.... /sigh.
Alas, to rip off and bastardise Dikymo's signiature-
Trade Channel: Fighting ignorance and stupidity with ignorance AND stupidity since 2004!
Regardless, the policies and
Wolfie — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 12:50Regardless, the policies and ideas of Ron Paul are exactly what I want from a politician, what I have been waiting for for twelve years.
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<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>
I'd give Ron Paul my vote
Ewiges — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 14:15I'd give Ron Paul my vote and all my money if he had a chance. Sadly, voting for him just hurts the Republicans more. /cry
As far as "baby steps" by
Shihli — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 12:10As far as "baby steps" by Obama are concerned, nations *need* baby steps.
Examples on why wide-sweeping, massive changes are bad:
Russia
Iraq
Please don't make me post my
Dufe — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 10:17Please don't make me post my analysis of Ron Paul's economic policy. I wouldn't even have the time for a post that long until after raid tonight. In short - It's bad. VERY bad.
Not just next in line, but a
Shihli — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 23:24Not just next in line, but a likely president. McCain's what, 76? Been in war and all that? Dude's probably got very little gas left in the tank.
Palin hasn't done just one interview, literally every time she's at a microphone she sticks her foot so squarely in her mouth you'd think she dug the taste of her ankles.
Combine that with the fact that she's a massive abuser of power (see: Troopergate scandal), uninformed and ignorant about the world and international policy, and is generally just NOT READY at all for anything resembling the presidency (let alone a Senate or House seat) ...
What you're looking at is this:
Obama/Biden: a campaign rooted on hope and change. Obama not massively experienced in big politics, but is a Senator and has worked as a community organizer in Chicago for years. Biden has been in the Senate for 35+ years, so he has just as much (if not more) experience than McCain. Plus, Biden and Obama don't agree on everything - he provides a good foil to Obama and an alternative view.
McCain/Palin: McCain is 76 years old, WANTS to keep at war in Iraq as well as up the military presence in Afghanistan and Iran. He has years of experience in the Senate but as Zildo pointed out, he has gone from a moderate conservative to rooted firmly in the far, out-of-touch right. He agreed with something like 90% of Bush's policies while in office, so you're voting for another 4-8 years of Bush-style Presidency. Palin has as much experience being a leader of this country as I do, which is none at all. She thinks that being a hokey hockey-mom will help - it won't.
Pick your poison - a ticket with two people who aren't likely to drop dead in the next 5 years and who advocate change and hope, or a ticket with two people who seek to abuse power and maintain the status quo of the last 8 years.
See now this is what I
Wolfie — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 10:04See now this is what I woulnd't mind seeing in trade channel! Informed, well thought out debate. I only wish that more people could be so passionate about Ron Paul as I. I believe he would have made an amazing president. You want an advocator of change? Check out Paul's policies. They make the things Obama intends to do look like baby steps.
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<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>
In that case, I choose pie.
Disrupter — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 02:20In that case, I choose pie.
Also...Sarah
Desteran — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 23:18Also...Sarah Palin...WTF...She wants to be vice-president of this country she has done one interview where she made a complete ass out of herself. Shouldn't the American people know the person who is on the other half of the Republican ticket w/ the possibilty that she may become next in line for president...this just is not right to me...makes me fucking furious to be honest...and here she is saying that the American people need to know who the "real" Obama is? We dont know who you are bitch!
/deep breath
Well here is my stance. The
Desteran — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 23:11Well here is my stance. The fact that somebody can win the presidency on a platform that has nothing to do with being president is beyond me. I do not care about the president's religion, race or military experience. I care about his intelligence and of course his policies.
For the last 8 years I can without hesitation say that I am more intelligent, logical and open minded than the leader of our country and for me that just isn't right.
Despite his indiscretions and whether you want to give him credit for the economy or not, under Clinton my family and most American families were better off. Dufe has warned us against making direct corollaries between president's and the economy but it is difficult not to draw these conclusions when the relationship seems so direct.
Think about the intelligence/education of the last two president's and the state of our country and then look at Obama's intelligence/education vs. McCain's...
McCain's arguement may be that he has experience on his side. I see this as case in point of his own innaction. McCain has had 25 years (my entire lifetime) to make a difference and I see little change in Washington. Partisan politics are worse than ever. He is what is wrong with Washington, not the solution.
There was a time, when I first became interested in politics, where I actually sympothized with some of his views but then he sold out to the "Republican base" and corporate America. If anybody has chosen between what is right and politics he certainly has. Over the last 4 years, many of McCains views on very important issues have changed. A man that used be a moderate Republican has shifted to the right and away from the middle class and mainstream America.
Fiscal conservatives tend to
Dikymo — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 21:54Fiscal conservatives tend to be liberal when it comes to war. This is reflected in the financial losses taken by our past three republican presidents. War is expensive. Clinton kept us out of needless wars and the surplus was a direct result of that fact.
Dikymo: Attacking ignorance and stupidity with ignorance AND stupidity since 1812.
BTW Sorreah, the Supreme
Dragon — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 21:38BTW Sorreah, the Supreme Court has overturned nearly every aspect of the patriot act in individual rulings.
At least I'll have a lovely topic to read tomorrow and comment on
"--Many class changes. You won't like the ones made
to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other
classes are all overpowered." ~Tigole, Blizzard CM
This topic is clearly
Dragon — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 21:36This topic is clearly missing the best vote for president this year
JIMMY BUFFETT FOR PRESIDENT, put a real Pirate in office.
Yes I am a pirate, 200 years too late
"--Many class changes. You won't like the ones made
to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other
classes are all overpowered." ~Tigole, Blizzard CM
I would just like to say
Karli — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 20:41I would just like to say that regardless of your stance on politics (or however much I agree/disagree with it), I think it's great that people care about the future of this country and are going to use their voice to vote =).
Too positive, Karli. Get
mav — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 20:44Too positive, Karli. Get out.
Personally I'm voting for Colbert.
So Reagan put us at the very
Shihli — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 20:36So Reagan put us at the very least, 100billion in debt - without Carter's help?
Here's why I view
Shihli — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 20:09Here's why I view "republicans" as bad for the economy.
That's hardly fair
Wolfie — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 20:29That's hardly fair considering Carter (democrat) put us 100 billion in debt when reagan entered office. As for the Bush family, they are jackasses. I would be hardpressed to even called them REAL republicans.
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<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>
Inflation averaged 12.5
Wolfie — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 19:59Inflation averaged 12.5 percent when Reagan entered office, was reduced to 4.4 percent when he left.
Interest rates fell six points.
Eight million new jobs were created as unemployment fell.
In no year following the tax cuts did revenues decline. They increased in fact in almost a straight progression from pre-Reagan years. The Cold War budgets did increase, and of course the happy fact was that this led to the end of the Cold War itself, as the Soviet Union recognized it could not outspend the U.S. But those military budgets were not significantly larger than during the 70s, and were smaller than in the Kennedy and Johnson years. No, it was domestic spending, and particularly entitlement spending, that grew enormously under the Democrat congress.
When Reagan took office in 1981, the unemployment rate was 7.6 percent. In the recession of 1981-82, that rate peaked at 9.7 percent, but it fell continuously for the next seven years. When Reagan left office, the unemployment rate was 5.5 percent.
Try not to think of me as a republican, because I am not. I admire Reagan and think that he put a profound impact on the economy.
I could be reading wrong, but Shihli, it looks as though you are saying Republicans=bad for the economy and Democrats=good, which I believe to be unjust. The country needs both parties to prosper. And please try not to associate my love for Reagan with either of the Bush's (whom I despise). I think they were both awful presidents.
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<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>
I will merely restate my
Dufe — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 20:59I will merely restate my previous warning: "Even taken all together, the collection of indicators with which most non-economists are familiar fails to give anywhere near an infallible grasp of an economy's true performance as a whole." And the list above is hardly inclusive of all the indicators even in that category. Now, I'm not trying to say the economy did poorly in that period or anything, I'm just saying that someone with, we'll say, "less education" in economics should be careful when making broad claims on the subject.
Solution: come live in
Adwarflol — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 19:16Solution: come live in canada a politics are lol
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"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." - Karl Marx
Here is the research-backed
Dufe — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 18:52Here is the research-backed answer for you Shihli (and for others as well): You've never seen that comment backed up because there really isn't anything there to back it up. Again, I'll relate some unemotional, unbiased information.
The economy is not a single entity. There are so many factors, systems, and subsystems involved that to make any claim that a single person, policy, regulation, or legislation could truly shape the economy as a whole is somewhat far-fetched. This same issue also makes it difficult to really "measure" the economy. In the field of economics, you'll hear the term "economic indicators"when referring to statistics like GDP, the DOW, and Inflation. The reason for using that term instead of something more concrete like "measurements" is that in truth, any one of them alone captures too small of a snapshot of the economy as a whole to be considered as anything more. Even taken all together, the collection of indicators with which most non-economists are familiar fails to give anywhere near an infallible grasp of an economy's true performance as a whole.
That being said, another reason the claim in question is so hard to justify is that every system and subsystem in the economy has a totally different reaction to various stimuli, and even a different reaction speed depending on whether a given stimulus is postivie or negative on it's respective scale. This is easy to observe in the market. Notice that the stock market often has serious fluctuations before the FED changes the interest rate, based solely on the expectation that the rate MIGHT change. Towards the opposite end of the scale, you might expect that businesses would lower wages in times of severe economic difficulty (as far as their business is affected), but you don't often see that. If you do see it, the wage cuts are typically hugely delayed and rather small relative to the fall in the firm's performance. A similar issue is seen with commodity prices, they only rarely fall during recessions. In summary, there may be a system or systems that will respond to a particular policy or peice of legislation at the 8 year mark on one occasion, but to claim that the economy as a whole whould be expected to reach some overall response within that timeframe just doesn't stand to reason. There are simply too many exogenous and indogenous variables for even the same single stimulus to have the same effect when applied at two different points in time.
And for a short rant: I love it when people curse outsourcing, foreign goods, and execs with huge bank accounts but in the same breath cheer for and demand unmitigated capitalism. Priceless.
"What most people don't
Shihli — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 17:13"What most people don't understand is that the economy a president sets
up does not often come to fruition until the end of his 2nd term or
even the years beyond."
How do you figure? I've seen this thrown all over the place but I've seen little to actually back it up. While I'll give Reagan credit for opening up talks with China and Russia, I won't give him credit for the economy - I find it hard to believe that over the course of 12 years of Republican-led government (Reagan and George HW Bush) the economy was in the crapper, then over 8 years of democrat-led government (Clinton) we saw a budget surplus, only to be lost again by another republican-led government (Bush Jr) ... and that over the past 30 years, the only 8 that weren't lead by a Republican president are given their credit for the policies of a president twelve years past.
I heard Obama is going to
Prime8 — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 16:30I heard Obama is going to get titan's grip in the expansion
I feel pretty strongly about politics as well, and sometimes I let it get the better of me and get sucked into the abyss that is /2.
To address Dikymo: Ronald
Wolfie — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 15:41To address Dikymo: Ronald Reagan was a god among men! I have been saying this since I started caring about politics. Ron Paul most closely resembles his ideas, and this is why I am going to vote for Ron Paul regardless. What most people don't understand is that the economy a president sets up does not often come to fruition until the end of his 2nd term or even the years beyond. Reagan constructed a beautiful economy that many people of the left wing persuasion do not like to acknowledge or they give the credit to Clinton. Speakin of Clinton, does anyone know what brought about the current "economic crisis?" The government contracted x amount of houses to be built and sold to American citizens. x% of these houses had to be sold to minorities and people who's income would not, under normal circumstances, be approved for a loan. Thus, a whole bunch of people were sold houses that they essentially could not afford. Thumbs up to Affirmative-fucking-Action!
To address Shihli: I'm sorry if i conveyed the message that Obama was intending to instate a law as abomonistic as The Patriot Act. I was simply pointing out, that in a time such as this, it would not be hard for him to push something of that magnitude through.
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<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>
Irony stikes again.
Dufe — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 16:56Irony stikes again.
the patriot act and no child
Sorreah — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 14:47the patriot act and no child left behind are some of the worst things to happen to us as a society in recent memory
the patriot act makes all our freedoms meaningless at the word of anyone with a splinter of authority
while the no child left behind knee capped an already crippled education system
both of these prove how blinded we can become when distraught with a current situation, its obvious that too many people are taking this election the same way and are just methodically yelling "NO MORE BUSH"
while i am up for public humiliation of him as much as anyone, it doesn't mean we should blindly elect whichever sheep wears the biggest anti bush sign but it looks like that is what is going to happen
thought, education, and freedom are our most important rights. we have already given up 2 of them in panic i hate to see the other wasted
I am voting for Ross Perot!
Closer — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 06:55I am voting for Ross Perot!
Yes Wolf, but no one likes a
Dikymo — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 01:42Yes Wolf, but no one likes a bitter old cripple and an underhanded twat who thinks laws are more suggestions than... well LAWS.
(Incoming tantrum)
I commend McCain for his military service and the personal sacrifice he made for this country, but why does he constantly try to use his military service as experience? HE FUCKED UP AND GOT CAUGHT. HE FAILED.McFAIL Yes tell me how getting captured and imprisoned by the enemy was such a great bit of strategery. Had em right where you wanted em didnt ya? Fuck off. I know I'm an asshole for saying things like that, but electing him based on his military experience is like promoting the retarded albino midget janitor to CEO just because he has been there the longest.
Have we found the weapons of mass destruction yet?
And fuck Ronald Regan too. Why is he suddenly everyones hero? His only job was to read the prompter without drooling or audibly shitting himself on live TV. Truely a shining moment in our nations history.
/rantoff
<3 wolf. I'm not trying to give you shit. I just had to get it off my chest.
Dikymo: Attacking ignorance and stupidity with ignorance AND stupidity since 1812.
I believe that a little more
Noidling — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 01:40I believe that a little more socialism wouldn't necessarily be a horrible thing, but I agree that it would be a very slippery slope with a good possibility of losing rights. Where to draw the line is the trillion dollar question that I don't have any kind of an answer to. That being said, I dont think anyone should be offended by well thought out and worded arguments like the ones you have posted Wolfie.
May you live in interesting times.
Barack Obama and Joe Biden
Wolfie — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 00:40Barack Obama and Joe Biden will enact a windfall profits tax on excessive oil company profits to give American families an immediate $1,000 emergency energy rebate to help families pay rising bills.
seems nice to us... but it is kind of kicking capitalism right in the groin.
why does every community need broadband? where is the money for this deployment going to come from?
Obama and Biden will strengthen the ability of workers to organize unions. He will fight for passage of the Employee Free Choice Act. Obama and Biden will ensure that his labor appointees support workers' rights and will work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers.
once again... capitalism be damned?
These are just a few examples. I'm not saying Obama is a bad guy, I'm just saying, that reading over his policies has an underlying "I mean well, but I might end up creating a bunch of laws that parallel communism" feel to it. Sometimes, especially with polititians, you have to look at the subtext.
Now, I'm not here supporting McCain. Certainly not. I will not be voting for either of them. I'm just pointing out that Obama's policies look good on paper, and they sound really nice... but how easy is it to make laws when your country is heartbroken and distracted? Look at the Patriot Act: unconstituional bullshit. I would even go so far as to call it Fascist. But, the country was heartbroken over 9/11, and it sounded nice because we were not thinking clearly.
I apologise if I offended anyone. That is just the subtext I read when I'm going over Obama's strategies.
<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>