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Politics

Wolfie's picture

Wolfie — Sat, 10/11/2008 - 13:21

I don't know if any of you have noticed the recent influx of political debate in trade channel, but it makes me ashamed to an American.

 I recently submitted at GM ticket, and after the matter was settled, the GM asked me, "Is there anything else I can do for you."  So I thought to myself, yes... yes there is something he can do for me.

 I replied to the GM's question with "There is a multitude of people debating the upcoming election in trade channel.  The statements and arguments are uneducated, not backed by any facts, and in all regards assanine.  These people are doing nothing but parroting what they hear from mommy and daddy and their "objective" news channels.  They have done none of their own research and are making ignorant, blanket statements that are often times completely false, racist, or altogether made up on the spot.  They are making both parties look bad and making me want to move to a different country.  I want you to kill them."

After a lengthy pause in our conversation the GM replied with "That is a harsh punishment for giving one's oppinion even if misguided.  But, I will look into it."

Now, I know nothing will be done, and ignorance breeds ignorance.... but I like to imagine a GM walking around as Arthas Menethil-the Lich King- mowing idiots down with the Frostmourne as they beg for their annoying lives.... /sigh.

Alas, to rip off and bastardise Dikymo's signiature-

Trade Channel: Fighting ignorance and stupidity with ignorance AND stupidity since 2004!

‹ Is it wrong...? I mean... really????Guide to Curse Client and Matrix ›
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Wolfie's picture

  No, I do not watch Fox

Wolfie — Thu, 10/16/2008 - 03:03

  No, I do not watch Fox News. Why does everyone think that I am here advocating the republican party?

__________________________________

<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>

Desteran's picture

Wolf... Do you watch Fox

Desteran — Thu, 10/16/2008 - 01:02

Wolf...

Do you watch Fox News? ... <3

Dufe's picture

I don't have the time

Dufe — Wed, 10/15/2008 - 22:27

I don't have the time tonight. Can you honestly not see it?

Edit: I'll throw in 1 quick example of each:

Biased: "alarming words like 'socialism'" - Socialism is not necessarily an alarming word unless you are already scared of it. The way he describes it is entirely and OBVIOUSLY biased. In fact, he admits it: "I am clearly an opponent of socialism, so certainly my version of the truth is going to be biased." Although he says this with a sarcastic tone, it is true nonetheless.

Skewed: "the terrors of socialism; it is a flawed and failed system that bases itself upon the restrictions of freedoms of the individual" Denmark is HIGHLY socialist has been measured as being the "happiest nation on earth", not to mention its incredible economic performance relative to 95%+ of the world. To make a blanket statement that socialism is a failed system is OBVIOSULY skewed if not flat out wrong. (See also his quote, "It is also, and has been everywhere it has been tried, an abject failure." Which as stated above is just plain uninformed and wrong.)

Poorly Formed Argument: "Lest you think that no one you know supports such a shift in America, I again ask that you check your ignorance at the door." Argumentum Ad Hominem - an informal logic fallacy. Also: "Socialism is ultimately the precursor to communism." Not only is this not true, as explained in earlier posts, but even if one case was demonstrated properly it would still be Hasty Generalization - another fallacy. Add in the other counts of Ad Populum, Ad Novitatem, Ad Misericordiam, Strawman, and other generally non sequiter arguments.

And those examples were just from the first four paragraphs of ONE of the articles.

Wolfie's picture

  do tell how they are

Wolfie — Wed, 10/15/2008 - 18:58

  do tell how they are skewed, biased, or poorly formed arguments?

__________________________________

<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>

Dufe's picture

Skewed ,biased, and in many

Dufe — Wed, 10/15/2008 - 17:38

Skewed ,biased, and in many cases poorly formed arguments of some random guy vs. the calm collected thoughts of arguably the greatest minds produced by the human race over the last several decades. I can't decide which one carries more weight with me.

garreth's picture

http://sefora.org/wp-content/

garreth — Wed, 10/15/2008 - 16:46

http://sefora.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/nobel_letter4.pdf

Wolfie's picture

I feel like jesse jackson

Wolfie — Wed, 10/15/2008 - 16:43

I feel like jesse jackson preaching at a KKK meeting posting my oppinions here LoL. (not implying that you guys are racist; merely that our views are vastly different.) but here are some things I found today that I thought were interesting.
  http://www.robarnieanddawn.com/newsite/robsoapbox.html
http://www.robarnieanddawn.com/newsite/soapbox/bushnixonobamacarter.html

__________________________________

<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>

Dragon's picture

The size of the Government

Dragon — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 17:09

The size of the Government does not instill fear, rather the way it is wielded instills fear.

And if you don't believe that a large Government can help the populace, I refer you to the New Deal by FDR.

"--Many class changes. You won't like the ones made
to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other
classes are all overpowered."
~Tigole, Blizzard CM

Wolfie's picture

Fair enough.  As far as the

Wolfie — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 17:07

Fair enough.  As far as the government goes, if the Federal government was much smaller, we would need far less tax dollars to support it.  The Federal Government was created with the intention of keeping the states united; not to lord over them as some kind of "Big Brother."  America should not have to fear its government.

__________________________________

<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>

Dragon's picture

Actually there are however

Dragon — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 17:01

Actually there are however in the case I will give it is 2 different amendments. 

The amendments are the 18th which gave us Prohibition and then the 21st which went and took away prohibition.

When the Constitution was written it was not intended for it to be set in stone for the duration of our country. Hence the idea for Constitutional Amendments to allow us to change our document to fit the times we live in.

On another note, how exactly will we pay for most of the Government spending we do (both beneficial spending and that which might not be beneficial) without taxes?

Edit: Oh and More
Article 2 Section 1 with Regardes to the President and how he is elected, how long he can stay in office etc. So that'll be Amendments 12, 20 and 25 that also deal with something specifically stated in the Articles of the Constitution.

"--Many class changes. You won't like the ones made
to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other
classes are all overpowered."
~Tigole, Blizzard CM

Wolfie's picture

(No sarcasm intended) Are

Wolfie — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 16:41

(No sarcasm intended) Are there any other amendments that directly contradict the words of the constitution?  I was under the impression that amendments were to adapt the constitution to changing times, not contradict its very meaning.  Otherwise could we not just put in an amendment to take away our freedom of speech or any other freedoms?

__________________________________

<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>

Dufe's picture

Dragon beats me to it . . .

Dufe — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 16:37

Dragon beats me to it . . .

Dufe's picture

The specific purpose of an

Dufe — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 16:36

The specific purpose of an AMENDMENT to the constitution is to AMEND the  constitution. Hence, the tax language in Amendment 16 overrules that found in Article 1.

Amend:

1.
to alter, modify, rephrase, or add to or subtract from (a motion, bill, constitution, etc.) by formal procedure: Congress may amend the proposed tax bill.

2.
to change for the better; improve: to amend one's ways.

3.
to remove or correct faults in; rectify.

 

 

Dragon's picture

See the interesting thing

Dragon — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 16:32

See the interesting thing about a Constitutional Amendment is that it changes what is previously written or gives new authority too. 

In fact one second here we go straight from dictionary.com

2.
an alteration of or addition to a motion, bill, constitution, etc.

3.
a change made by correction, addition, or deletion: The editors made few amendments to the manuscript.

Therefore the Amendment effectively changes Article 1 of the Constitution and becomes the law of the land.

"--Many class changes. You won't like the ones made
to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other
classes are all overpowered."
~Tigole, Blizzard CM

Wolfie's picture

No Capitation, or other

Wolfie — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 16:30

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census of Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

Oh, no, you're right.  It's perfectly OK to spit in the face of ARTICLE 1 of the constitution.

__________________________________

<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>

Dikymo's picture

 Ronpaul.com  Some of you

Dikymo — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 16:21

 Ronpaul.com 

Some of you need to do some reading before you make yourself look hypocritical and ignorant. It's been a really well informed discussion so far. Let's keep it that way. 

 

 

Dikymo: Attacking ignorance and stupidity with ignorance AND stupidity since 1812.

Dufe's picture

I've read it all and seen it

Dufe — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 16:40

I've read it all and seen it all.  I also researched a few of the issues and discussed them with experts in the appropiate field after applying my own understanding to any topics for which I had focused, in-depth education.

Ewiges's picture

You are such a mood killer

Ewiges — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 16:20

You are such a mood killer Dufe.

Dufe's picture

Have you ever gone to

Dufe — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 16:15

Have you ever gone to purchase a high-value item, and the salesman seems to have too quick of an answer to everything?  And all the answers seem to fit so perfectly with what you thought you wanted to hear that you just knew there had to be a catch?  Well, Ron Paul is that salesman, he has studied enough to know what the impressionable, easily convinced demographics of America want to hear.

Here's the catch:  He probably would not be able to implement most of his proposals due to the checks and balances in the constitution (THANK GOODNESS).  Even if he did manage to do so with his Economic policies, you wouldn't actually want him to.  They are effectively the stone age of economics and would probably, if fully implemented, root us and most of the world into a horrendous depression the likes of which we haven't seen even a fraction of for the better part of a century.

saedo's picture

This Ron Paul guy sounds

saedo — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 15:50

This Ron Paul guy sounds like he wants things to go back to how they were 50-60 years ago, or maybe 200 years.

---------------------------------------------

Wolfie's picture

That does not change the

Wolfie — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 15:46

That does not change the fact that if "no one carries" the only people who will own firearms are the criminals.

__________________________________

<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>

Dragon's picture

Reread the Constitution if

Dragon — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 15:48

Reread the Constitution if you think Federal Income Tax is unconstitutional.

BTW, as far as letting everyone carry, i think the brits have a better policy atm which is NO one carries. Go figure they don't have many crimes with firearms if any at all

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am16

Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified. Ratified 2/3/1913. Note History

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from
whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States,
and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Now we can say we don't like Income Tax but to say that it is illegal is a misinformed ignorant lie at this point in time.

 

"--Many class changes. You won't like the ones made
to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other
classes are all overpowered."
~Tigole, Blizzard CM

Wolfie's picture

  __________________________

Wolfie — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 15:29

 

__________________________________

<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>

Adwarflol's picture

<3 Ron Paul

Adwarflol — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 15:39

<3 Ron Paul

-------------------

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." - Karl Marx

Blizzhax's picture

Amazing video Ewiges.   I'd

Blizzhax — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 14:51

Amazing video Ewiges.

 

I'd vote for him.. he should have been the Rep. Candidate.

But, my vote is going for Obama. 

I -hope- it works out for all of us in the end. 

I probably know the worst of everything. 

I am in a wheelchair, I get Social Security, Our household only makes about 26k a year, I only have medicaide, I don't have a job, but am trying to get one, etc.  

So I really need to hope for change.  

I need it.  

saedo's picture

Wow, I lasted 40 sec into

saedo — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 14:45

Wow, I lasted 40 sec into the vid before I had to turn it off. lol

---------------------------------------------

Dufe's picture

Oh I've seen it.  And other

Dufe — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 14:40

Oh I've seen it.  And other Ron Paul propoganda.  As I said, I'd just like to see a list of specific policies and ideas from Ron Paul that are "exactly what I want from a politician."

Dufe's picture

I'd be curious to see a list

Dufe — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 14:23

I'd be curious to see a list of specific policies and ideas from Ron Paul that are "exactly what I want from a politician."

Ewiges's picture

Don't know if this will help

Ewiges — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 14:27

Don't know if this will help Dufe. But this is the video every Ron Paul lover is passing around.

http://www.ronpaul.com/who-is-ron-paul/

Wolfie's picture

To address Ewidges: I have

Wolfie — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 15:20

To address Ewidges: I have been telling people since I was a kid that if they do not vote, they have no right to bitch about the outcome.  More recently, I started thinking to myself: if I vote for someone who I, in no way, agree with, and that candidate becomes president only to enrage me with his/her poor performance, do I have the right to bitch about it?  So, I made a promise to myself right then and there that I would not forfeit my dignity.  I will write Ron Paul in.

To address Dufe: there are far too many of Ron Paul's policies to list right here and now as I would like to try out my new talents, but here are a few of my favorites.

Economy: Ron Paul wishes to return our monetary system to being backed by precious metals.  As is, our money is worth is what we say because... well because we say so.  The Federal Reserve (which is about as "federal" as FedEX, prints money at will, causing inflation.  Furthermore, the Federal Reserve being a private company LOANS each dollar to us with interest putting us immediately in debt.  How then, do we pay back this interest Wolf? That my dear friends is the function of Federal Income Tax (which, in and of itself, is unconstituional.)

Gun Control: Ron Paul has never voted for gun regulation.  Infact, Ron Paul would like to see half of Americans with concealed weapons permits, because a scumbag will think twice about robbing that old lady if she has a 50/50 chance of blowing his face off.  Ron Paul said it best when he said "If we take away guns, the only people who will have guns are the criminals."  If you're not anti-guns this makes alot of freakin sense.

Foreign Policy:  Ron Paul believes that great men such as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were right when they wanted America to stay the fuck out of other countries' affairs.  He wishes to withdraw from such organizations as the UN and NATO.  Being a part of such groups only blurs our sovereignty in my oppinion (besides, the man who came up with the idea for the UN said it would not work without every point of his idea being inforced. Needless to say, we went with his idea without instating all points.)

Ron Paul feels that states should decide whether to regulate things such as gay marriage, medical marijuana, abortion, and such. (wait, let the "sovereign" states make their own laws? That's constituional and thus blasphemy.)

There are many more... but like I said, I want to try out my new talents.

__________________________________

<The Original BeastMastery Hunter>

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