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What do you think about no flying for an entire expansion?
YES) It makes me feel more immersed in the game lore.
15%
YES) It encourages more PvP! (Please explain how in comments)
5%
YES) I miss riding my ground mounts.
9%
MAYBE) If you make all of my flying mounts able to be ground too.
8%
MAYBE) if ground mounts are sped up to 200% speed (or higher)
26%
NO) I don't have enough time when I'm on to be riding everywhere
7%
NO) I have spent too much time getting various levels of flying to be wasting it.
11%
NO) It encourages more PVP! (please explain in the comments)
0%
NO) I love flying.
19%
Total votes: 74
SARTH3D dead! Parses:
saedo — Mon, 03/02/2009 - 22:08SARTH3D dead!
Parses: http://wowwebstats.com/j2sae11yqaqj3
Just as a note, each time I enter the portal it seems to think the fight is over. So here's how to interpret it:
Here would be the combined kill: http://wowwebstats.com/j2sae11yqaqj3?s=118640-143195
For Tenebron split: http://wowwebstats.com/j2sae11yqaqj3?s=119405-122770&m
info pls
moriella — Mon, 03/02/2009 - 14:36Shihli, lots of stuff has been offered up in this thread. I think a change is definatly gonna help us. What is our plan for tonight?
I am 100% in for tonight if
garreth — Mon, 03/02/2009 - 15:59I am 100% in for tonight if you need me. Let's two-healer it and really flatten our balls to the wall. We've got a motivated group and the skill to make this happen. I'm totally OK if you need to sit me for class balance, of course! MAKE THIS HAPPEN!
I should be able to make it
Desteran — Mon, 03/02/2009 - 09:44I should be able to make it tonight. I am using WiMax and it has been pretty stable so far but havnt played WoW other than a couple of minutes to test it out.
crunching data
moriella — Sun, 03/01/2009 - 22:04Looking at what saedo has given us, it really seems like our DPS is just way way off. Fusion has a .58 and 1.01 successful attmpt and we are still in the 1.1 - 1.2 range.
When looking at the dps over the breakouts he provided, I noticed some odd varience that had me scratching my head. I put this into a graph for everyone to take a look at.
I wanted to post this data here to let others have a visual look as well. None of the numbers appear to be influenced by anyone's premature death. Everyone was alive for tenebrons death.
I agree totally, at this point - DPS is our key to winning this fight. While two healing it may SEEM harder, it might actually be much easier if it cuts 20 seconds off the tenebron portion, giving us less adds and less mana stress. I think this is viable particularly with a s.priest or ret pallie in group combined with Shihlis talent that heals raid as well. I imagine a shammie could heal the raid w/o a holy priest using this method
While my dps was a little sub par on Maly6, I think due to the nature of this fight I could bring respectable Dps, particularly with AoE damage and be able to drop shadowform during the nasty bit and heal once all tenebrons adds have been aoe'd. Then back into shadow when shadron is down.
With a build like this..www.wowhead.com/
I would be at about 90% max shadowpriest damage, but still bring Imp DS, AND 3% + hit for the party, allowing everyone to gear for more dps and less +hit.
There are several different ways I think we can do this - I just thought of this one and wanted to point it out. We HAVE to figure out how to get more consistant DPS to ever make this work
A couple of causes in
saedo — Sun, 03/01/2009 - 22:55A couple of causes in varience in dps:
Continuing with Fusion
saedo — Sun, 03/01/2009 - 20:03Continuing with Fusion parses, this was the next one they had: http://wowwebstats.com/2qsncljsol6de?s=12158-23546
It's pretty much the same group, though the dps were slightly different, different people, but same class setup
Tanks and healers were the same. They did mostly go 2 heals, but this one the Elem Shaman threw a few more heals around. Not a lot, def was more dps the whole way through.
Anyways, since this looks quite similar to the one before, I don't think there's much else to learn. Well one thing to note, they used Bloodlust 12 seconds after Tenebron landed. Well, on to the next!
The next one is probably of more interest: http://wowwebstats.com/zumofyllfktkq?s=46743-62532
It appears to be a completely different group, with different, yet similar set up:
The enh shammy appeared to be the one to throw out a few heals.
This would be their Tenebron: http://wowwebstats.com/zumofyllfktkq?s=48528-52291&m
57 seconds, no Bloodlust.
Next one is similar to first group: http://wowwebstats.com/yh4qzcyuxi63o?s=88727-102623
Only real change is a prot pally for prot warrior to tank adds.
http://wowwebstats.com/wc5lfffzajtyi This one appears to have just changed one of the mages for a lock, and the resto druid for holy priest.
This one might be interesting: http://wowwebstats.com/i3r5rrz1ac6qe?s=195693-208358
Though it was done before 3.0.8 so before the Twilight Torment "fix", among others:
But eh, forget dps analysis on this one, can't exploit that bug anymore.
So I stumbled upon Fusion's
saedo — Sun, 03/01/2009 - 19:03So I stumbled upon Fusion's WWS page: http://wowwebstats.com/grwplccetswua
I took this opportunity to look at their recent Sarth3D 10 Man kill: http://wowwebstats.com/u5vghyubwbjwa?s=82412-87594
Though technically the parse seem broke I suppose after the portal since the drakes were in previous attempt: http://wowwebstats.com/u5vghyubwbjwa?s=68689-81368
By this alone it tells me that they didn't go into the portal til both Shadron and Vesperon died. But that's not the point of this, I went and took a split on their Tenebron only. Just to compare with ours: http://wowwebstats.com/u5vghyubwbjwa?s=70144-73913&m
The kill was 1:01, def 1 round of whelps with only 6, and they did not use Bloodlust/Heroism in their kill shot.
DPS was:
Also had:
Healers were:
It appears they kept 2 healers the whole way. The shaman threw only 6 heals on himself in the fight. But the other thing was, the Shadow Priest's Vampiric Embrace was doing the healing too. Another thing of note, I don't see the Blood DK healing other party members, so he does not appear to have that glyph.
Tenebron Parses: Attempt
saedo — Sun, 03/01/2009 - 18:34Tenebron Parses:
These are all from our longest attempts, the 3+ min ones.
One thing to note, Attempt 29, despite being the longest one of these bunch and having no heroism, only 1 round of whelps came. Attempt 28, with heroism, getting it down 8 seconds faster, still had 2 rounds of whelps. This appears to show that the whelp hatching is not timed. Probably just a CD, then random luck. Ideally, we'd want Heroism, high dps, and killing Tenebron probably within 1:13 after he arrives, but it's not hopeless to stop the 2nd round of whelps if we don't.
Shihli- Haleth can tank today
Cdhabro — Sun, 03/01/2009 - 11:45Shihli- Haleth can tank today if you like- we are all home sick.
Edit: Wrong day
Alright, did a lot of
Shihli — Sat, 02/28/2009 - 01:46Alright, did a lot of brainstorming with Saedo and with the dungeons/raids forums.
I have a lot of ideas about how this fight needs to go, and what needs to happen.
Biggest things:
1) I need to tank Sarth. I have at least as much passive spelldamage reduction as Nuit (at least on the big breaths), and far more gimmicks to get around taking breath damage. Blood DK tanks are highly recommended for Sarth tanking.
2) DPS across the board needs to be higher. Not sure how to best approach this - it might mean having Mori go shadow if me tanking Sarth makes healing far less stressful. Many raids have recommended using 3 tanks, 2 healers, and 1 spriest/ele shammy to dps during Tenebron, and offheal during Shadron/Vesperon. This may also mean Quisjaa going Unholy.
3) Raid synergy may need to improve. If #1 and #2 don't get the boss killed this week, we may need to bench one "regular" for something - perhaps a ret pally.
4) http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15443306237&sid=1 - this thread is where I've gotten a fair few suggestions.
was thinking about being
Keisjaa — Sat, 02/28/2009 - 13:27was thinking about being unholy last night(the things i do at 3am when i can't sleep) if I do so the raid loses out on imp icy talons(windfury) in order to gain some increased spell dmg in ebon plaguebringer(which atm would increase mine & rupter's dps only)
Just tossing that out there so people don't wonder why dps might not go up as much as expected(overall)
Well with Icy Talons, it only
saedo — Sat, 02/28/2009 - 14:54Well with Icy Talons, it only affects me and you. Hunters aren't affected. Not the casters. There's tanks, but prob don't matter much. You'd have to increase the amount I lose.
Looking at a spreadsheet, messing with the buffs. It predicts I can have 4429.78 dps only. On our best shot (26), looking at Tenebron only, I calculate I was at 4401 dps. So that's damn close to what I can get.
While on that, the Tenebron dps on that attempt was:
The melee haste would drop me to 3956.60 dps, difference of 473.18 dps. So with Unholy, with increased damage for Rupta, is that enough to overcome a ~500 dps diff?
But wait, that Ebon Plaguebringer does also increase my own dps. Poison damage is affected by spell effects, and as mutilate, a fair chunk is poison nowadays. Spreadsheet puts it at +158.04 dps. So the real difference to overcome is ~315 dps.
Also with that thinking, since the raid comp is what it is with little synergy. Should we just drop some of it and go for personal dps? Or at the very least, take a good hard look at how much each buff provides us, and at what cost,
I can personally gain about 6% more crit to Mutilates in exchange for 3% raid crit. But that's only about 44 dps boost to me. Pretty sure the raid benefits enough to overcome that, but let's be sure, how much is that 3% crit worth to everyone else?
Another thing I did last night was set up my daggers/poisons, to make sure the that debuff was up as much as possible. A personal dps hit of ~106 dps. Now this is a bit more tricky. Mutilate rogues are the worse at this debuff, maybe doing an 85% uptime or so (vs 100% for others). So if I take a 100 dps hit to increase that uptime say another 5% or so, is that worth it? Some napkin math to make the question a bit simplier, is ~0.15% more crit to the raid worth 100 dps?
But of course if we do get an Elem shammy or Ret Pally, this is all moot.
Also, as an FYI, boomkin haste aura provides a ~86 dps gain to me if we decide to audit that buff.
looking over parses again i
Keisjaa — Sat, 02/28/2009 - 15:47looking over parses again i see rupta has the magic dmg increase buff(Earth & moon) already (it's Imp FF he doesn't have)
The debuff is just FAR easier to apply to a group of mobs as a dk than as a moonkin(pestilence RAWR)
*EDIT: Curious as to how you came up with the dps figures for tenebron, caus ethe one's i came up with are a LOT lower all around(also i can't figure out how to custom split a log)
*EDIT#2: NM forgot to remove the 30secs of "wait time" till he lands
http://www.wowhead.com/?talen
Disrupter — Sat, 02/28/2009 - 21:27http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0tMfuiIscdIVhouZMxc0b
This is my highest dps spec I can come up with, I could and probably would forgo brambles for hurricane/typhoon because we never do positioning properly to get max dps out of my treants. My treants can do 50-70k damage in 30 seconds depending on talents/procs/etc. If we were to properly position tenebron at Shadron's landing point... and THEN pop heroism AFTER I pop my treants that'd be a significant dps increase for me. Half the time though you kinda move him a couple feet the other half you kinda turn him and it just is a fucking pain in the ass to set up treants, so they die as SOON as I put them out because of a breath because he's spinning around.
That's alot of dps for 30 seconds that we should take advantage of. Having Nuit on the drakes will probably also increase dps because he'll throw up FF for me which will make speccing into imp ff give me 3% crit without using the global, and the melee will get the physical damage increase from the armor reduction.
Also a dps increase, atleast for me, would be an elemental shaman, moriella being disc ups my dps as well, and us properly working positioning of Tenebron in the beginning to allow me to fucking treants for once will allow my dps to go up substantially.
We lack alot of caster synergy but we have the classes to help my dps go better it's mostly us not doing it in a way that'll actually let me use my shit properly. Perhaps we can do that?
I like thei dea of having an
Shihli — Sat, 02/28/2009 - 22:17I like thei dea of having an elemental shaman - having Zildo or whomev' spec that way and offheal during Shadron/Vesperon would be a huge boon.
However, odds are Mori is going to have to be Holy for this to work, which means no Imp Divine Spirit.
We're trying to get it all worked out.
Orky on the drakes with
saedo — Sat, 02/28/2009 - 23:02Orky on the drakes with Sunder Armor is probably the single most powerful debuff. Though it doesn't benefit Rupta I suppose. Just the other 3. Though I'd do it if no one else can, again the worst to provide it. Rupta adding FF to that would prob benefit too.
With an Elem Shaman, Totem of Wrath will take the place (surpass) Imp Divine Spirit.
Gotta agree that an elemental
Keisjaa — Sun, 03/01/2009 - 00:22Gotta agree that an elemental shammy as a pseudo healer would be prety pimp(and flametongue I believe is the totem to replace DS directly)
It is. Totem of Wrath is
saedo — Sun, 03/01/2009 - 00:58It is. Totem of Wrath is like the Imp Flametongue. Gives more spell power and gives crit to raid (well affected targets). So it's better than Imp DS. Unless you want the spirit part.
Further suggestions keep
Shihli — Sat, 02/28/2009 - 12:13Further suggestions keep pouring in.
If Zildo has the gear to support it, we might have him go Elemental on Sunday/Monday (assuming he can come). He will still heal during Shadron/Vesperon but that way we can save our Heroism for the Shadron zerg. Karv/Garr or Mori will be healing me, the other will be healing the OT's and Zildo will be healing the raid. That way we have strong dps for when we need it, and still-fairly-strong heals otherwise.
If Zildo is unable to make it, we might try with Electrify filling those shoes.
But overall, our dps needs to increase somehow.
I want to shit on this
garreth — Sat, 02/28/2009 - 00:07I want to shit on this fucker's floor. He's DEAD. DEAD YOU HEAR ME.....
Did some brainstorming with
Shihli — Sat, 02/28/2009 - 01:06Did some brainstorming with Saedo, and found out two things:
1) Glyph of Rune Tap has a nearly-unlimited range - it's based on the game's max draw distance (approx. 150yd? ish), and it's a raid-wide in-range heal of 11% (22% for me) health.
2) Between Frost Presence (15% spell damage reduction), Will of the Necropolis (15% flat damage reduction when I am below or brought below 35% health), Icebound Fortitude (approx. 30% damage reduction, 15 sec of every minute), Anti-Magic Shell (75% spell damage reduction, 5 sec of every 45), and Vampiric Blood (15% health increase, 35% healing received increase, 30sec active out of every min) ... I *SHOULD* have more passive resist and damage reduction than Nuit. I'll take a swing at tanking Sarth this coming sunday and Monday.
Lava Crab read me!
Shihli — Fri, 02/27/2009 - 23:54Lava Crab read me!