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I quit because they're nerfing Illumination

garreth's picture

garreth — Thu, 06/18/2009 - 12:16

Hahaha, no not really :P  But it got you to read this post didn't it?

Actually, I'm actually quite happy at the upcoming Illumination "nerf" because of the other healing mechanic changes involved.  Check it out: http://www.worldofraids.com/news/679.html

A quick summary of 3.2 Paladin changes:

  • Beacon now works on overhealing.  If I overheal someone 100%, all that potential healing goes to my Beacon target.  Yes! This is something Holy pallies have been asking about sine the release of Wrath.  This allows me to heal a raid AND keep a tank up. Also, multiple Beacons may be allowed on a singl target, meaning multiple Paladins can heal a raid WHILE keeping the tank up.  
  • Flash of Light now HoTs a target who has our Sacred Shield.  Woot! More, free healing and I get a legitimate HoT!
  • Illumination nerf.  We all knew this was coming ;) And, no, I'm not going to flip out about this.  I think this provides an excellent opportunity for us to really have to put skill into who/when we heal.  No more "LOLHOLYLIGHT" for 10 straight minutes. 
  • MP5 buff. The hallowed "mp5 buff" looks like its really just "put more mp5 on gear".  MP5 is great in massive amounts, of course, but right now all the gear we're passing up becaues of MP5 has much too little of it.  If that amount DOUBLED the pieces would be amazing.  Here's to hoping they double it ;)

To summarize: I'm really excited.  If they dropped Illumination down to only 40-50% I'd still be poop-my-pants excited.  Holy Pallies: This is incredible opportunity for us to step up as healers, but requires a tremendous amount more work and decision making skills. Can our pallies handle that?

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Mana Issues, Less of a problem

Andelan — Sun, 06/28/2009 - 18:21

To make up for my stupidity in my last post. Here is a glimpse of wisdom. This concerns only the Beacon of Light and the Illumination Change,

Illumination now 30% mana return down from 60%, lets say that HL costs 1000 base mana I know it doesnt but for the sake of I dont want to pull out my desktop calculator lets say it is.

  1. This means that a HL crit costs 700 mana instead of 400 mana as it was before.
  2. That is a net loss of 300 mana per Crit with a single target Holy Light,

But this is more of an after thought when you think about the Beacon of Light awesomeness. 100% of the heal is transferred to the tank.

For the given situation assume your holy light is a 12k Crit an 8k base and it is the only heal you use and that your first Heal either does or Does not crit and your third cast never crits.

  • Situation: Before Patch, You have Beacon of Light up on the tank who is missing 16k HP, you are missing 4k HP, you cast Holy Light on yourself (I dont know you hit the wrong button so you didnt cast FoL) you are now full HP but the tank is still missing 12k HP you cast again (and possibly again) to top off the tank
  1. Lets say you did not crit at all, thats 3 casts, and 3000 mana, That hurts like hell right,
  2. You crit on your first one and you do not crit on your second cast, that is 2400 mana, (400 for the first 1000 each for the second and third)
  3. You crit on both the first and second heal removing the need for a third cast, that is 800 mana, Much better than any of the others,
  • Situation: After Patch, Same HP situation you are down 4k tank is down 16k. You now only need a min/max of 2 casts of HL to top of both you and the tank.
  1. again let us say that you do not crit at all, that is only two casts because now overheal counts on your beacon of light, (Tank heal 8k+8k), that is only 2000 mana, that is already much better
  2. You crit on your first one but not the second, that is 1700 Mana, not as much of an improvement as in before the patch but still better,
  3. You crit both times, it costs 1400 mana, MORE than before the patch.

Now let us assume each one of these happens twice, IE. You dont crit at all, you Crit on the first one and you Crit both times,

  1. Adding up the Mana cost of before the patch comes to 12400 Mana,
  2. Adding up the Mana cost of AFTER the patch comes to 10200 mana,

That is a net gain of 2200 Mana, assuming the situation I have given, Mind you it is a bit of a stretch.

The post patch situation is a lot more consistent in that there is not as much variable flying around. Considering my own effective crit when in a 25 man raid is about 50% Outcome 2 is going to occur more often, For new healers or rather new 80's this patch is going to help them a lot, the only people this has a small chance of hurting is the Best In Slot geared Ulduar Healers.

Frankly I would rather take the overhealing Beacon of Light over the 60% illumination any day! and hell if you dont see it my way, take our new HoT and laugh at the Druids, (Please dont)

 

Holy Light

Andelan — Thu, 06/25/2009 - 10:10

I think Ive used Divine Illumination like 3 times in raids,

I never ever ever go OOM and its not because I dont heal, Its because our Mana pools are so Godly that if you are playing right your mana is always 50% or higher.

Hell on fights like Hodir where you are right next to the boss part of the tme, just smash his leg in with your pretty mace,

Thats my two cents, but finally a HOT that doesnt require a trinket or a 2 piece set bonus.

garreth's picture

Hi Andelan, You're new so

garreth — Thu, 06/25/2009 - 10:51

Hi Andelan,

You're new so I'll go easy on you :P  I've been healing for four years and seeing you type that made me blind in disbelief. To show you why, take a look at my three main healing macros:

Holy Shock:

#showtooltip Holy Shock
/use 13
/use 14
/cast Divine Illumination
/cast Divine Favor
/cast [target=mouseover,help,nodead][]Holy Shock;
/stopcasting

Flash of Light

/use 13
/use 14
/cast Divine Illumination
/cast [modifier:alt,target=player] Flash of Light; [target=target,help] Flash of Light; [target=targettarget,help] Flash of Light;

Holy Light

/use 13
/use 14
/cast Divine Illumination
/cast [modifier:alt,target=player] Holy Light; [target=target,help] Holy Light; [target=targettarget,help] Holy Light;

Summary: It's. Free. Fucking. Mana.

And it doesn't cost a global cooldown.  And don't tell me "I don't run out of mana".  Your job as a holy pally is to never stop casting. Ever.  If you're beating on a boss or otherwise standing around, you're not doing your job.  You spec and gear like you're doing hard modes 100% of the time.  If you can sit at 50% mana the entire fight, then you can blow some more Holy Lights and dramatically increase your throughput.  

You're stoked about a crappy HoT but not using Divine Illumination on CD? I'm heading to your app now ;)

saedo's picture

Then that CD has been utterly

saedo — Thu, 06/25/2009 - 10:15

Then that CD has been utterly wasted 99.9999999% of your time.    You should just macro it to your heals.  Fire and forget, not a wait and see maybe if you can sometimes use it before it's too late oops tank is dead should've used it 3 seconds ago thing.

 

Also, do you realize the difference between "Divine Illumination" and "Illumination"?

Good Point

Andelan — Thu, 06/25/2009 - 10:28

Thats a really good point, Ill macro it now. I agree with you, you raised a really good point.

I meant to edit my first post and say this gives me more of a chance to use it now, but you responded too fast for me to edit it.

saedo's picture

More Blue Reponse to the QQs

saedo — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 10:17

Beacon of Light

I’ll try one more time. The following is painfully simplistic to the point of inaccurate, but I’m not sure how else to express the logic cleanly.

PvE problem: Paladin healing routine is boring.
Solution: Make Beacon usable on more targets.
New PvE problem: Paladins are too good because mana regen is too high.
Solution: Nerf Illumination (+1 for Beacon -1 for Illumination = 0).

PvP problem: Damage and healing are too high.
Solution: Change resilience and nerf healing. For paladins, the regen nerf already made above is probably sufficient for the latter.
New PvP problem: But the buff to Beacon counteracts this nerf in PvE, leaving paladins at a net higher level of power (+1 for Resilience -1 for Illumination + 1 for Beacon = 1 (when we want zero)).
Solution: None needed because Beacon isn’t a huge factor in PvP (the equation above is actually +1 for Resilience -1 for Illumination = 0). (Source)

saedo's picture

Blue Talk

saedo — Mon, 06/22/2009 - 10:16

Illumination 3.2 Nerf (Source)

If it matters, we changed Illumination first to correspond with the Beacon of Light changes. Then when we agreed on changing resilience (and it was a very long discussion) we knew we would have to look at healing, or at least the healing by prominent Arena specs. Resto and Disc almost certainly needed attention. We thought paladins might be okay since their mana regen had already been nerfed and Beacon isn't a huge factor in PvP.

I understand some paladins who don't like the change are trying to somehow trap us into admitting the Illumination nerf was for PvP. This strategy of questioning our motives always perplexes me, because we try to be up front about when we think something is too powerful -- we don't try to hide it. We would rather face player ire directly by stating something is getting nerfed because it was too good rather than try and sneak the nerfs in under questionable justification that smart players would see through anyway.

Illumination was nerfed for PvE reasons. Having made that nerf convinced us we didn't need additional PvP changes (for now anyway). We always consider what effect changes will have on PvP and PvE (and 5-player dungeons, soloing and the level-up experience as well).

Illumination nerfed to make MP5 gear look better (Source)

This isn't quite accurate. We buffed MP5 because it just did not provide enough mana per stat point. You are often going to end up with MP5 on your gear almost no matter what you do because you aren't often choosing directly between Int, spellpower, crit or MP5.

The nerf to Illumination was almost entirely because of the buff to Beacon of Light. Beacon can now provide massively more healing in some situations. If paladins still had the mana return they do currently, they would be the best healer in the game by a pretty wide margin. It is difficult to argue that point. Now you can argue that you prefer the current model (HL on the tank and nearly unlimited mana) better. But it's hard to argue the new Beacon would be balanced without other changes.

I'm going to throw out some made-up numbers. These are not from actual stats, but are hopefully typical of say a 25-player, 10-min hard fight (something like XT). Feel free to disagree but they shouldn't be off by orders of magnitude.

A Holy paladin's mana regen might look like this:

Illumination 70,000
Divine Plea 50,000
Replenishment 36,000
Other sources of mana 30,000
Mana from gear 10,000
Overhealing 60%

A Holy priest's mana regen might look like this:

Replenishment 30,000 (remember, the paladin has more mana)
Other sources of mana 40,000
Mana from gear 25,000
Overhealng 30%

See the problem? We're not talking about mana regen that is slightly off from other classes.

This situation is acceptable (somewhat) in current content because you can only do so much with such high levels of regen since you generally have to target one heal at a time. We could pretty much just make paladin spells free and the outcome wouldn't change that much. That's an exaggeration, but you get the point: paladins are generally GCD limited much more than they are mana limited. I'm not sure anyone is that mana limited in current content (though slightly more so on the hard modes), but whatever it is, paladins feel it the least.

Now we change Beacon so that the overhealing counts. Paladin healing is going to go up, probably by a lot. We can argue how much it's going to go up or how of that will be effective healing. But it will go up a lot, especially considering the glyph of HL will get more use. Considering how much higher paladin regen is than other healers, it has a long way to fall before it would even be at parity.

Remember, we are also nerfing Penance, Prayer of Healing and Lifebloom. The latter won't be felt as much in PvE, but also realize we are talking about 3.2 changes here and the current druid set bonuses (which might be slightly overpowered) won't be around.

moriella's picture

Remember, we are also nerfing Penance, Prayer of Healing

moriella — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 10:34

<sigh>  Blizz givith and also taketh away.

The penance change doesnt bother me too much, as it just a cd increase.  I didnt use it every time it was up anyway.  I always held it in reserve to use as a big, fat, fast 'OH SHIT' heal when a tank or other party member dropped dangerously low.  A couple more seconds cd isnt gonna kill it.

The PoH change is a spellpower scaling reduction from 80% to 55ish%.  Will just have to see how much that drops me. 

Yes, I'm disc - Yes, I heal like I'm holy spec.  WHY?  cause a holy priest cant have 30k mana and rapture

Come on 3.2 gear.  I want 35k mana.  You think you needed to nerf replenishment now blizz?

garreth's picture

If we raid with 3 paladins

garreth — Mon, 06/22/2009 - 10:50

If we raid with 3 paladins normally, I see three beacons on the MT and a LOT of really fast raid healing.

OR: Two pallies beacon the tank and raid heal, while the third Beacons himself and MT heals exclusively.  This puts a LOT more into our raid heals and adds much more buffer to the pally tank healer.  

I see flash making a comeback in a big way.  This gives us much more healing, but at a much higher cost.  I think it's a wash. 

Atakheal's picture

shamans in 3.2 patch has

Atakheal — Sat, 06/20/2009 - 11:59

shamans in 3.2 patch has really good changes, im  happy tho =D.

Aidin's picture

Been waiting for this post

Aidin — Thu, 06/18/2009 - 13:06

Been waiting for this post all day.  Smiled ear to ear when I read the title. :)

saedo's picture

Replenishment: This buff now

saedo — Thu, 06/18/2009 - 13:03

Replenishment: This buff now grants 1% of the target's maximum mana over 5 seconds instead of 0.25% per second. This applies to all 5 sources of Replenishment (Vampiric Touch, Judgements of the Wise, Hunting Party, Enduring Winter Frostbolts and Soul Leech).

 

Mana Regeneration: All items that provide "X mana per five seconds" have had the amount of mana they regenerate increased by approximately 25%.

garreth's picture

This is really good news on

garreth — Thu, 06/18/2009 - 13:14

This is really good news on both Replenishment and MP5.  That makes my T8 worthwhile now, I believe.  Let's see how hard the Illumination hit is, but I think we'll come out ahead.

saedo's picture

Divine Intellect: This talent

saedo — Thu, 06/18/2009 - 13:15

  • Beacon of Light: The healing amount on the Beacon of Light target is now based on the total healing done (including over-healing) instead of the effective healing done. Radius increased to 60 yards. Multiple Paladins can now have this active on the same target. Buff indicating a player is within range of the Beacon target is no longer displayed.
  • Divine Intellect: This talent now gives 2/4/6/8/10% increased intellect instead of 3/6/9/12/15%.
  • Illumination: This talent now returns 30% of the mana cost of the spell instead of 60%.

garreth's picture

The Divine Intellect nerf

garreth — Thu, 06/18/2009 - 15:55

The Divine Intellect nerf sucks and the Illumination hit is harder than I was hoping for.  Together with the Replenishment buff this puts my total longetivity, in current gear and playstyle, at about 20% less.  Hello Mana Pots!

Prime8's picture

Am I reading this

Prime8 — Sat, 06/20/2009 - 12:18

Am I reading this wrong?

Replenishment: This buff now grants 1% of the target's maximum mana over 5 seconds instead of 0.25% per second. This applies to all 5 sources of Replenishment (Vampiric Touch, Judgements of the Wise, Hunting Party, Enduring Winter Frostbolts and Soul Leech)

.25% per 1 second = 1.25% every 5, changed to 1% every 5. Doesn't sound like a buff.

edit: In fact, it seems to me like instead of 'fixing' gear options for holy pallies, they rearranged the regen mechanics so mp5 on gear would be desirable. I think they just nerfed every other form of regen you had to accomplish this though. Rather than making mp5 better they just made int/crit worse.

saedo's picture

20% nerf. And mp5 increased

saedo — Sat, 06/20/2009 - 12:38

20% nerf.

And mp5 increased by 25% on gear.

Mathematically, if you have a 20K mana pool, you'd need an additional 40mp5 (currently, turns to 50mp5 in 3.2) on gear to recieve the old replenishment regen in 3.2.

Formula should be this:   (Max Mana) x 0.0025 / 1.25 = AdditionalMp5

Or simplified:   (Max Mana) x 0.002 = AdditionalMp5

Well that's a general case for everyone.

 

Prime8's picture

Yea that's what I thought.

Prime8 — Sat, 06/20/2009 - 13:07

Yea that's what I thought. I was just trying to be polite while pissing in Garreth's Cheerios. Can't have him staying positive. :D

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