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Poll
What do you think about no flying for an entire expansion?
YES) It makes me feel more immersed in the game lore.
15%
YES) It encourages more PvP! (Please explain how in comments)
5%
YES) I miss riding my ground mounts.
9%
MAYBE) If you make all of my flying mounts able to be ground too.
8%
MAYBE) if ground mounts are sped up to 200% speed (or higher)
26%
NO) I don't have enough time when I'm on to be riding everywhere
7%
NO) I have spent too much time getting various levels of flying to be wasting it.
11%
NO) It encourages more PVP! (please explain in the comments)
0%
NO) I love flying.
19%
Total votes: 74
purple beams
moriella — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 14:36The mentioned purple beams on Hodir while ice blocks are up are from knoppix.
It really wont do much good to have knoppix jump on breaking npc's from ice blocks. Shadow Priest Damage does indeed have a very slow 'ramp up' time. While other casters can immediatly blast something and do 5-15k damage in one shot (normal fight - not a fight with damage increasing buffs) a shadow priest cant. For his DPS to raise he has to stack effects on the target before his max dps can hit. By the time a SP can do siginificant DPS, the freezes will be 'dead'. This was the reason Blizz gave SP's the most powerful AoE in game - specifically to help them out because their single target dps on low health targets is abysmal.
I think keeping knoppix on
garreth — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 15:33I think keeping knoppix on hodir 100% is fine. We put mages/locks/hunters/boomkins as priority on blocks. With Orky tanking for sunders, nuit dpsing and four healers i think our overall damage will be quite high.
melee should handle the
Grasen — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 15:48melee should handle the blocks in their area while the ranged turn around and go for those 2 mages along the back wall,
what we must drive through to the ranged is they HAVE to go for the mages first, not just the nearest block, I had no trouble finding the mages to dps them straight away, so noone else should have any either.
I disagree to an extent.
Desteran — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 15:57I disagree to an extent. While the mages are important so are the rest of the buffs, I dont think we really have the time to pick and choose which block were dpsing rather we should get them all out as quickly as possible. If were fumbling around trying to find the mage we are wasting valuable seconds. We simply need everybody possible on the blocks until they are free.
Make a /tar macro and dont dps hodir until they are all free.
Yea and I've specifically
saedo — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 16:19Yea and I've specifically started marking the NPC's themselves, rather than the Ice Blocks. So the marks stick to them. All you have to do is be aware. They should be Star and Circle.
yes and that helps alot
Grasen — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 16:24yes and that helps alot saedo, i keep tabs on where the star and circle are the entire fight, so i am ready to go as soon as the freeze goes off while already knowing where i am going,
breaking out the mages is far
Grasen — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 16:12breaking out the mages is far more important than any others due to the singe debuff,
As a ranged i know that its important i git those mages out, so i keep track of where they are throughout the fight, i know where the mage is before he is frozen, If i can do it, stoned, then all of yall can do it, no excuses.
Breaking the mages out of the
Shihli — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 16:03Breaking the mages out of the blocks will speed up breaking all of the blocks, look at the parses.
Does Orky have a full set of
Shihli — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 15:39Does Orky have a full set of frost resist gear?
If he doesn't it will take 5
garreth — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 16:04If he doesn't it will take 5 minutes to make it all.
He should, I thought I
saedo — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 16:20He should, I thought I remember him having it for Sapphiron.
I know for a fact that I did
Desteran — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 13:25I know for a fact that I did a shitty job of dpsing the blocks, like didnt at all for the first few pulls where I was dps (excuses are like assholes but I was a little out of my element :-P ).
My point is if I was ahead of anybody on dpsing those blocks, I sense failure.
exactally my point, the
Grasen — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 12:40exactally my point, the ranged just targits whatever is close to them even if it is the same ones the melee goes for, i go straight for the circle (mage) and several times i was the only one on him and he was the last one broke out of blocks.
Out of all the ranged dpsers,
Derchlon — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 13:06Out of all the ranged dpsers, Knoppix is the lowest by a significant margin on flash freeze damage. I've discussed this with him, and others, and it seems like he loses a lot of damage from switching targets like that, and he needs to "ramp up" to get his maximum efficiency. What about Disrupta? PD? Luczilla? You guys hit freakishly hard here, and I'd love to see you turn and nuke the NPCs at range. with you three, and the three hunters, we'll get them free in no time and get those buffs out more quickly.
It takes us ~8-10 seconds to free all the iceblocks right as the fight starts. I see no reason why we can't free them all in 15 seconds after each flash freeze Hodir casts. If we can do that, thats 20 seconds or more (assuming 2 flash freeze casts), of maximum buffs/debuffs on the boss. Imagine having 10-20 more seconds of Storm Cloud, or 20 more seconds of full uptime of singed. As we all know from our own on use abilities, 10-20 seconds of both at the same time is a huge boost in dps from where we are now.
Disrupta, PD, and Luczilla
Shihli — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 13:09Disrupta, PD, and Luczilla have no legitimate excuse, neither does Zildo in this case.
I'd honestly appreciate that
Disrupter — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 13:57I'd honestly appreciate that you wouldn't discuss this with me if you're going to take my word for it.
On a more boss killing oriented message, why not have our weakest dps ranged, be "that guy" that keeps up singed. The one attempt, the single attempt I didn't specifically stand in the fire as much as possible in the fight, because I got stormpower and would do way more dps if I stood in a damn beam - the debuff fell off. Twice. So someone needs to be on it, that does the worst dps.
Also if we're going to have the caster dps switch to the flash freezes, unless forshurley is cursing them all then the casters will get their best dps by focusing my target if possible - I apply the 13% spell damage debuff and if you can cut off 10k+ off each flash freeze by focusing my target instead of being "unique beautiful little butterfly" as garreth would put it we'd do a bit more dps.
If anyone else feels they'd be competent at finding the sweet spot for the dps casters please, speak up, you can take over lol, I can't seem to do it very effectively.
We already have that
Shihli — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 14:20We already have that happening, or should have had it happening, with our hunters - who, of our ranged, will be weakest on this fight.
We shouldn't "have the caster dps switch to the freezes" because, to put it bluntly, you should have already been dpsing them from the start. The NPCs are FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR more influential to your dps on this fight than anything else.
THEY need to be broken out before anything else happens.
there was still a ton of fail
Grasen — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 12:29there was still a ton of fail on breaking out the mages from iceblocks, there was multiaple times where i freed a mage ALL BY MYSELF, i saw a couple times that people broke all the iceblocks EXCEPT the 2 mages and left the mages for me and another hunter (i think it was derch) to break out,
Notiable failers? someone casting purple spells, (warlock? shadow priest? am i missing anything i donno whice it actually was)
those mages HAVE to be broke out fast, people are falling into the i'll help git 1 block broke and then turn back to the boss, this cant happen, and if it is going to happen, that 1 block better damn well be a mage,
Our ranged was full of fail last night on breaking out these mages, I have noticed that these mages position themselves at the back of the room, and once they git there, people just forgit about em when it;s freeze time.
Ranged needs to take care of
Shihli — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 12:32Ranged needs to take care of knocking the mages out of blocks. Melee can't do that much running.
16374 files:
saedo — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 01:0816374 files: http://stats.downfallguild.org/kb/sws-overall-1245721594/index.html
Parses:
saedo — Mon, 06/22/2009 - 22:09Parses: http://wowwebstats.com/kctjxoycmg1wg
FUCKING A!!!!!!!! THERE WERE
saedo — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 01:21FUCKING A!!!!!!!!
THERE WERE NO SUNDERS AT ALL FOR THE NIGHT!
NO FUCKING SUNDERS FOR OUR PARTICULAR RAID COMPOSITION THAT IS LIGHT ON CASTER DAMAGE AND HEAVIER ON..... PHYSICAL DAMAGE.
FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
So how close were we? Best was 20% off? 20K dps behind?
For the night, Hodir's Physical Damage taken was: 118, 574, 614 damage, for standing for 41% of total damage (tops).
Ughhhhhh reducing Hodir's armor by 25%..... Argh............................
Pots: Speed Vulk 6 Onrique
saedo — Mon, 06/22/2009 - 23:37Pots:
Speed
Wild Magic
Indestructable
I personally try to wait for Heroism to pop pots, my haste plus more haste equals extra synergy benefits. We had 6 Heroisms.
People who did not pot: Forsurely, Knoppix, Luczilla, Derchlon, Luminaire, Orky
People that should pot more: Disrupta, Shortlived, Deadhli, Poisondonut.
And probably both DPS warriors should be taking advantage of Indestructable Potions, similar armor->AP talent I assume.
indes < speed
h4mm32 — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 13:49from all my 40 pages of reading on EJ so far, im taking a break, i've found that speed is > indestructible by the reason the way the mechanics work. i see multiple posts suggesting i should speed from HP < 19% for the white damage for rage and to decrease melee swing time to better exe spams, again via rage gain,
as for the topical application of sunders or lack there of, you have to understand that it can seriously decrease dps as a whole because of the rage starvation i understand to better the needs as a whole for the raid group but maybe we should consider taking the lowest damage yield player and having them apply it, maybe it's me, maybe it's orky doesnt matter. but regardless looking at post's ive seen rotations with sunders applied and with sunders not applied and the only way i could even remotely guarantee sunders if that i replace them with my slam rotation which is once in a blue moon based on rage and what other abilites i have up. so while they MAY be applied they will indefinately be slow and NEVER guaranteed.
last night was me attempting to get used to an arms rotation on a fight that potentially requires some of the most movement for a group, as a whole, in the instance there are few times where i have the opportunity to stand still and learn/weave my priorities to maximize dps let alone apply sunder. so while i apologize for not being good enough to handle both yet. i have to ask your leniency on a spec i rarely touch. i can't speak for orky but i haven't been dps more than 2% of my time played as a warrior i even leveled as prot. get me some practice inside a raiding environment not just 5 mans and ill get you your sunders when the proverbial rage delivery man shows up with extra packages for me
i popped my speed pots i came prepared for this raid but im not prepared to sunder cause im not good enough as a dps warrior yet i need more practice
Well I was gonna start using
saedo — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 16:17Well I was gonna start using Quisjaa as the standard for Indestructable Pots. He did it 10 times, pre-fight, to get a 2min buff for that little extra AP. Then 4 speed pots somewhere along the way presumably during the Heroisms or whenever it's best for him.
For you, yea haste pots better for that HP < 19% burn. Keep doing that. But since you can squeeze out more by popping a pot beforehand, you probably should take advantage of it. I would if I could, and Quisjaa definitely does it. Everyone should pot to his level.
As for Sunders, yes I know it gimps a warrior's dps. EJ has pointed out that the opportunity cost of sunders is far less than any other option, so short of a prot warrior, a dps warrior should be sundering. Any dps warrior.
The problem with last night was that well, both warriors didn't do it. Both warriors were silent about it. Both warriors didn't even think about raid debuffs their own class provides.
Regardless of how you think it gimps your own dps, a sundered mob with a less than optimal dps rotation will probably give you more dps than a fully armored one with perfect dps rotation. Sure you maybe be relatively lower compared to others in the raid, but your actual dps should be higher.
I myself would be Expose Armor'ing if there were no warriors in raid. Or if no warriors are tanking/dps'ing the boss. Like, Ignis, Nuit tanking, warriors on adds, I use Expose Armor. Pretty much all 10 man fights, I use expose armor. Razorscale, I use expose armor back when we had to burn it cause it was lower ramp up time. Same with Mimiron's head, same with XT's heart, Yogg's Brain. (outside of times Shattering Throw was used)
It comes down to this, applies to everyone really. Learn your own class inside and out. Know what buffs/debuffs you can provide. Know where it ranks, how much better/worse than other options, and know when to use them.
Forgive me for not knowing
starstalker — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 21:49Forgive me for not knowing the numbers behind the sunder, but would a Druid's FF provide the same debuff?
No, there's 2 debuffs.
saedo — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 21:51No, there's 2 debuffs.
Major Armor (20%) = Sunder, Expose, Acid Spit, Shattering Throw
Minor Armor (5%) = FF, Curse of Recklessness, Sting
The Major and Minor stack.
Why don't we put Orky as
garreth — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 14:04Why don't we put Orky as prot, in frost gear tanking Hodir, Nuit goes kitty dps and sunders are handled without any undo dps loss across the board. Solves a lot of problems.
sound logic
h4mm32 — Tue, 06/23/2009 - 14:56and nuit does fantastic dps, orky's gear is good enough but do you think we can still three heal it g?
Yep, popped 7 pots over the
Shihli — Mon, 06/22/2009 - 23:50Yep, popped 7 pots over the course of the night, all ~5 seconds before pull. I was basically holding off to the later pulls to make sure people were up to the challenge. I'll be potting more in the future.
That said, Forshurley, Knoppix, Luczilla, Derchlon, Luminaire, and Orky need to stop being stingy and start using consumables!