Lets see how smart you tech boys are (Win7)
Ewiges — Mon, 07/13/2009 - 13:42
So since everyone is talking about how GREAT Win7 is, I really want to try it. The problem is one of the two things that is preventing me from doing so is a complication with nProtect gameguard. Gameguard is basically an anti-hacking program some games use.
Basically nProtect refuses to find a solution since Win7 is still a testing OS. On the game I play with nProtect, there is a thread but no solution. Using the power of google I can only find a few hits, one of which: http://www.pinoygaming.net/windows-7-beta-1-not-compatible-with-gameguar... is the same problem people are getting with RC. The author also mentions some other games that won't work because of conflicts with Win7 and anti-hacking software.
If you techies know anything or hear of anything please let me know. Google is letting me down right now.
EDIT: Seems only one game with nProtect GameGuard works on Win7. The developers of KartRacer managed to patch their game and get it to work with both Win7 and Gameguard. The developers have not released what they did.
I highly suggest waiting for
Knoppix (not verified) — Sun, 07/19/2009 - 10:42I highly suggest waiting for retail...there is no upgrade path from RC to retail and you will have to completly reformat come retail meaning you will loose everything.
This does not mean that you cannot TEST Win 7 RC but don't completly chage to something that you cannot upgrade. You will still be able to copy files you have saved to a backup hard drive.
As of now my MSDN account still says this is for test only you will not have a valid upgrade path, do not make this your primary operating system as you will have to completly reformat.
http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/GettingReadyforWindows7/thread/efad6118-a11c-4a5f-aea6-48c500b7ebcd
What game do you need that
garreth — Mon, 07/13/2009 - 18:21What game do you need that isn't WoW or Hello Kitty Island Adventure? (Which runs GREAT in Win7, btw)
I play a game called
Ewiges — Tue, 07/14/2009 - 04:04I play a game called MLB Dugout Heros. Its a free to play MMORPG baseball game by gamescampus that profits from microtransactions. http://mlbdugoutheroes.gamescampus.com/ But I guess there are a lot of games that uses nProtect's GameGuard. A description of how gameguard works is as follows:
GameGuard hides the game application process, monitors the entire memory range, terminates applications defined by the game vendor and INCA Internet to be cheats, blocks certain calls to DirectX functions and Windows APIs, and auto-updates itself to change as new threats surface. nProtect GameGuard is launched via GameMon.des with a driver dump_wmimmc.sys.
...
Because of its method of actuation (very similar to a rootkit), it is criticized for being extremely invasive, often without knowledge of the end user. The software installs a device driver which is difficult to uninstall; even uninstalling the game will still leave some files hidden on the system, but it stays inactive without the game. In recent versions (revision 1007 and up), GameGuard fails to halt when the game ends, so GameGuard continues to use computer resources and inject code into processes. This is often unknown to the end-user, as GameGuard masks its CPU usage by hooking Windows system querying APIs.
...
Because of the way that GameGuard hooks into core system DLLs, it is impossible to run games protected by GameGuard under Windows API Emulators, such as Wine under Unix-based operating systems. The key issue being that GameGuard bypass the OS safeguards in order to:
* Hide the game application process.
* Monitor the entire memory range.
* Terminate specific applications without the user consent.
* Block specific calls to DirectX or the windows API.
So someone took the liberty
Ewiges — Sun, 07/19/2009 - 09:39So someone took the liberty themself to update nProtect so it will now work on win7
http://www.forgottenportal.com/index.php?option=com_jdownloads&Itemid=54...
Funny how an anti-hacking program can be "modified" but still works.
Win7 here I come.
Its more likely they haven't
starstalker — Mon, 07/13/2009 - 14:51Its more likely they haven't released anything publicly to its customers yet as they are still testing. Not everyone supports an OS that still isn't released yet, thats just a part of testing. They are likely in a closed beta, and will release compatable software at release (or shortly after). Its been like this for every version of windows. Nothing to see, move along, move along...
They'd rather wait til the
Dufe — Mon, 07/13/2009 - 15:08They'd rather wait til the retail OS release date to release their beta code, then blame it on Microsoft/Apple/Etc when it doesn't work saying, "This new OS is buggy!" Far more responsible to get the test code out a bit sooner (say when the OS has hit the RTM build) so that the retail OS release can be more seamless for the main body their customers on that day. Don't have to support it, just release it!
I can see your point, I just
starstalker — Mon, 07/13/2009 - 15:11I can see your point, I just think its a lose-lose either way. Nvidia released buggy software when Vista was released that cause instability for a large number of systems. Of course, that was due to inadequate testing, but still, I'd rather them release a product they can support, than something less stable.
Honestly, I care less about
Dufe — Mon, 07/13/2009 - 15:23Honestly, I care less about which way they go and more about them taking responsibility for that decision. If they choose to delay development/public testing, then they need to accept the fallout when it doesn't work right when the OS is released rather than trying to blame the OS dev. If they release too soon and are buggy/unstable during OS pre-release, then they need to accept that that's their fault and not the OS dev's, but I agree that they needn't be obligated to support their early release. Anyone who chooses to beta test an OS should already know they're putting their system at risk for reduced stability, security, etc.
What upsets me is when the third parties delay their development and testing, cause problems at OS release, and then blame the OS dev or allow the OS dev to take the full blame.
As an alternative Wiges, you could see what happens when you run an XP or Vista virtual machine in Win7, or vice verse. (Assuming you have the RAM to support it.)
I haven't tried it, but
Ewiges — Mon, 07/13/2009 - 15:35I haven't tried it, but people and the few forum threads on this issue say virtual machines and rightclick properties compatibility aren't working.
Hmm . . . well, it's hard to
Dufe — Mon, 07/13/2009 - 16:04Hmm . . . well, it's hard to say exactly what could make it work without more details on how it works. Naturally, a copy protection suite is unlikely to publish/discuss such details. I would think that if it's a simple version check/dll/registry/permissions type issue that the virtual machine would work.
Not working on a virtual machine makes me wonder if it's got to do with network/firewall settings in Windows 7, which underwent some hefty revisions from Vista. If someone ran a packet capture of the protection software validation process, external to a working XP/Vista machine, and compared it to a Windows 7 machine (or maybe an XP virtual machine hosted on a Windows 7 machine) trying to run the validation, they might be able to see if this is the case. Running process monitor (sysinternals) in the same situations to examine the network traffic generated/attempted could also shed some potential light on the situation.
Keep in mind this is a quick "shot in the dark"/brainstorm suggestion that comes with no guarantees.
This is the email response
Ewiges — Mon, 07/13/2009 - 14:55This is the email response everyone has been getting for submitting a ticket to their support dept.
"Hello, this is Game Security Center from INCA Internet.
Thank you for contacting us.
Currently the Windows 7 is not an official version, so we are not supporting it.
Please check the recommended Operating Systems from the game company
in order to play the game.
Thank you."
To me, its actualy
starstalker — Mon, 07/13/2009 - 15:05To me, its actualy understandable. Lets say they release a version that, while usable, has a gaping security flaw that causes many hackers to go unnoticed. They would probably get reamed for that instead. Its kind of a no win for them. While I don't agree with it, I do understand it.
Well I guess Aione and some
Ewiges — Mon, 07/13/2009 - 15:10Well I guess Aione and some browser MMO (runescape maybe?) are getting hit really hard because of this. People install win7 and realized they can't play now. What I don't get is how the devs of that kartracer game managed to still have the program running but their game work too with win7. Them not commenting though makes me think its either not active or they have no clue.
Any software company that
Dufe — Mon, 07/13/2009 - 14:49Any software company that flat-out refuses to begin testing/development until retail release (of any OS) should be boycotted to the fullest extent possible.