Kitten Brigade 25man - Ulduar con't

Raid Zone:

Ulduar, Vault of Archavon

More Ulduar hijinks. Also, Archavon if not completed and available.

Start: Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:30

End: Wed, 07/15/2009 - 15:00

10 individuals signed up
Shihli
saedo
carno
Enixa
pulga
primistic
Vitriola
Kwondre
garreth
Keisjaa

If you never saw my vent

saedo — Wed, 07/15/2009 - 20:52

If you never saw my vent comment here are the parses: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-mC9iGM9KwXDaLBP2/

They were updating in real time (well, about once per min) as the raid went on so you could've alt tabbed and looked right away. Garreth has a hard on for this so probably switching over.

Wonder if I should even bother parsing the other 2 ways. ;p

I really like it Saedo. It

Derchlon — Wed, 07/15/2009 - 22:57

I really like it Saedo. It took me a while to get used to it and find my way around, but it works really well.

I will actually make this

Enixa — Wed, 07/15/2009 - 15:43

I will actually make this one. Turns out Auto Pay for comcast got bugged and they shut my service off. Just got it back now.

My dad's birthday.

poisondonut — Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:23

I'll be out for this one guys. Dad's birthday dinner. catch you guys Friday!

There can only be 1 blue

saedo — Wed, 07/15/2009 - 13:39

There can only be 1 blue square. Think Kwondre said he's missing Friday too.

BTW, Imp Scorch vs Shadow Mastery, discuss.

I think that locks should be bringing shadow mastery to raid honestly. If im specced for scorch (3 points), it takes me 5 casts to fully stack the debuff. this is a ridiculous long time versus casting 1 shadowbolt. If i want to lessen the time for the scorch debuff, I have to sacrifice a dps glyph (3 talent points plus major glyph loss, OUCH). Also, from theorycrafting on EJ, mages lose more dps by glpyhing and casting scorch than locks do speccing and casting shadowbolt. That's my two cents. I.E locks start puttin those points in.

we're speccing into scorch no

Kwondre — Thu, 07/16/2009 - 07:17

we're speccing into scorch no matter what for the FB crit improvement, but yea glyphing scorch is just out of the question. In the end its a convenience factor for not having to stack scorch 5 times in the beginning or when it falls off.

I don't know enough about the lock specs to comment on what they should or shouldn't do (so I won't), and like i said last night I've got no problem buffing out raid dps at the cost of personal dps, but a couple of points of perspective (not a QQ, just putting some thoughts out there):

If you have two mages in raid, we each only need to sacrifice 3 GCDs to apply full scorch. This is not a big deal in the beginning of the fight, and if we're reasonably lucky we might proc instant pyroblast. Problems here would only arise in specialized circumstances that include adds/silence where scorch falls off - which means another 3 GCDs (Flash freeze breaking on hodir, pounce+fear on auriya, etc)

If you have one mage in raid, then it can get a bit dicey due to the above variables + the single mage needs to use 5 GCD's to put up full scorch and 5 everytime it falls off due to circumstances that are pretty common in ulduar.

Again, this is not a QQ, and if I knew more about the tradeoffs between destro and affliction talents for locks, this might be a more meaningful post from me - but if the personal dps lost for a warlock who only needs 1 GCD to apply the full buff - to spec shadow mastery is less than what it would be for a mage, locks should do it...if not, blue squares can handle it.

One thing i have not done or seen math on is whether or not the 5% increased spell crit makes up (from a personal dps standpoint) for the 3-5 GCD used to stack scorch and the 1 GCD every 20 seconds or so to refresh.

Well, looking at last night,

saedo — Thu, 07/16/2009 - 12:16

Well, looking at last night, Auriaya is almost tank and spank, prob best of the fights to look at last night at least. Some napkin math:

Your total dps time was 242.1s.

If we were to reduce your crit rate by 5%, making adjustments to your damage distribution:

Fireball = 483917 - 51x(0.54x7040.5 + 0.46x11842.5) = 12196.58
Pyroblast = 197315 - 16x(0.4875x6262.9 + 0.5125x11497.9) - 14710 = 39471.6
Living Bomb = 90651 - 26*(0.435*2403.0 + 0.565*4163.8) = 2306.848
Living Bomb Ticks = 80701 - 59*(0.643*1049.5 + 0.357*1832.0) = 2298.7025
Total = 56273.7305 damage => 232.44 dps

Then with Ignite, I guess that's about 40% more.

Total = 78783.2227 damage => 325.416 dps

Now, not entirely sure how to handle Hot Streak, I suppose napkin wise, assume 5% less?

Pyroblast procs = (16x(0.4875x6262.9 + 0.5125x11497.9) - 14710) * 0.05 = 6421.17
Total = 85204.3927 damage => 351.94 dps

Now, you've casted scorch 15 times in the fight for a total of 45997 damage. So that would've been, what, another 9-10 fireballs?

Going by your averages, another 10 fireballs at the lower crit rate would give you: 10*(0.54*7040.5 + 0.46*11842.5) = 92494.2 damage => 382.049 dps

So personal dps wise, it looks like the fireballs would've gotten you slightly higher than using Scorch + 5% crits. Seems to be not worth doing only if you're the only spell caster in raid.

Though really wasn't sure how to napkin Hot Streak. Just ignoring that part of it seems to show not a huge difference anyways, well the more it contributes, the less of a difference it is then.

Disclaimer: This was all done through some bored napkin math based on minimal knowledge of the class mechanics so none of it could be correct.

wow

Kwondre — Thu, 07/16/2009 - 12:38

this is awesome...it took me 30 minutes of work time to follow along, but its very informative.

Can't map out hot streak? (welcome to the World of RNGcraft that mages live in). I've seen some calculations on hot streak, but none that i have confidence in. Also, the 4 PC bonus on Tier 8 makes it even more RNG, because of the chance to not consume the hot streak charge. I've rolled 7 hot streaks consecutively in one raid...the highest "normal" is 3-4...and i think the proc chance for multi hot streak is 35% or so....the "5% less" can be very distorted by RNG on pyroblast, the most RNG spell in my book with tier 8 gear.

Wasn't trying to present "scorch isn't worth it" as an option. That would be equivalent to me not giving out FM just because there wasn't a mage to give it back to me, and whoever non-mage got it would make me look bad on meters.

Bottom line is, we're gonna scorch cause we like seeing dead bodies, personal dps loss or not...what I will QQ about is why blizzard makes a talent (for warlocks) that is incredibly beneficial to raids and easier to apply the equivalent talent than mages, yet makes that talent in a tree that is supposedly not viable for raids.

/end QQ

Yea, I'm just being a nerd

saedo — Thu, 07/16/2009 - 13:38

Yea, I'm just being a nerd and curious about stuff.

Hot Streak is tricky, I can prob think of a way, but it'll have to leave napkin math and into some statisical analysis which I don't wanna dive into atm. lol

nm

Vitriola — Thu, 07/16/2009 - 05:36

never mind. I would have just deleted if I could.

yea i'll be out

Kwondre — Wed, 07/15/2009 - 14:59

yea i'll be out friday...MY birthday.

Scorch unglyphed is a major "personal" dps loss to apply and maintain it with one mage

Scorch glyphed is no problem to maintain, but you lose one of the three "must have" fire glyphs: molten armor, fireball, living bomb which = major dps loss.

With two mages, shouldn't be a problem to keep up scorch between two people...but a warlock could just make it easier on all of us and go imp shadow bolt =)

Well upon some reading, deep

saedo — Wed, 07/15/2009 - 15:59

Well upon some reading, deep destro locks would be fire locks so Imp SB is totally out of the question for them.

So you, imp scorch. More raid dps.

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