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Kitten Brigade 25man - Ulduar finish

Raid Zone: 
Ulduar

Completion of Kitten Brigade's raids for the week.

Mon, 07/20/2009 - 11:30
Mon, 07/20/2009 - 15:00
12 individuals signed up
Shihli
Enixa
saedo
carno
pulga
Kwondre
Keisjaa
Vitriola
Atakheal
Nuitarin
Grasen
Dangly
  • Ulduar
  • Kitten Brigade
  • 25 Man
  • Raid
Shihli's picture

3-Keeper Yogg-Saron retrospect

Shihli — Mon, 07/20/2009 - 22:56

In retrospect, we may want to consider dropping Hodir out of the fight next week and see how that works.

On the one hand, we'll still lose 10% damage dealt, as well as 20% damage reduction and the ass-saving iceblock.

On the other hand, we'll gain 20% movement speed increase, significantly faster travel time in the brain room (giving us an additional 5-8 seconds of dps time per brain room), and significantly fewer complications from the corruptor tentacles overall.

I'll admit, my presumption that Mimiron would be the easiest keeper to leave out may have been hasty.  Let's find out next week.

carno's picture

more pew pew focus

carno — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 09:41

I think our greatest problem last night was Phase 1. Well, I'm sure everyone knows, but it was still really messy. No matter which guardian is removed there will be less DPS and if Phase 1 isn't done properly that DPS will cost us a swift Phase 2 and then make Phase 3 very difficult.

As a note, for 0 keepers everyone must be at about 5500-6500 DPS for a kill. At 1 it's 6600, 2 is 7260, and 3 keepers is 7986. This is assuming Thorim is removed. Thorim kill requires Yogg to go down in about 190 seconds or the 4th beacon will cause too many guardians to heal and wipe the tanks+raid.

KB Yogg Phase 3:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-Niq6UIn8icIrPzUx/sum/damageDone/?s...

Everyone on the list should be at 7500-8500 dps. I know we're not doing hard mode or even 2 keepers, but this, along with Sanity is worth practicing. Next patch Yogg's getting nerfed 20% and the immortal guardians will only get 3 beacons. I don't know how that 20% will affect Phase 3, but I'm guessing there'll be about 2m less damage required. This could mean no heroism in Phase 2 which means heroism in Phase 3 which could mean, I would guess, if everyone was doing 6000-6800 DPS last night (p3), we could have a 3.2 Yogg alone in the dark kill.

saedo's picture

One thing to note, due to the

saedo — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 10:20

One thing to note, due to the higher dps requirements in P3, guilds (the 3 so far?), Heroism and major CDs like that are saved for P3.   So we'd be higher in P3 if we had that.

That means we had to at least have enough dps to pass P2 Crushers and Brain Room without those buffs.

Based on last night, we were falling behind on both fronts without Mimiron and were blowing all CDs.   Though maybe it's more Brain falling behind since we lose the 20ish seconds of extra dps tentacle stun bonus damage times, which cascades up above.

Suggestions....

We should probably be in position 5 sec before the portals spawn.   Spread out around Yogg, even if it's away from the main group.   Though I'd put like the healer/cleanser on the far side so he can do his thing with the people near him.    This is less wasted dps time running a lap around Yogg when portals spawn.   Let top side handle corruptors more, we want to give them more stunned time.

Risks are, the brain link across the room, but hopefully, portals come soon which lets you click to go in and break it.

And Constrictors.  

1.  I'd like to have say, assigned back up dps.   When one of us gets constricted, they jump in and take their place right away.   No, not the break them out and hope they can still make it.  That's wasted time.   I mean jump in take his spot right away.    Yes, even ranged, cause we can't afford to lose dps (time) in the Brain for less phases and more stun times.

2.  I'd like to form a rag tag squad of um, 2-3 dps that's priority is to kill the constrictors, even if it means going (slightly) to the other side of the room.   To rescue the person caught trying to take a portal there.   Maybe 1 healer to follow ever so slightly to throw a heal on the constricted just in case.

 

The melee that missed the portal can help clean corruptors, and work down crusher when they're stunned.

 

Thoughts?

Backup DPS sounds like a good

Kwondre — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 10:51

Backup DPS sounds like a good idea...

I know we broached this issue once before, but affliction seems to be the dominant spec for locks on Yogg+0-3. You give up some single target dps it seems for massive dot damage heaven. Worth of at least an offspec i think. Greater dots on constrictors means more flexibility for melee to back people up / roam and  free up constricted brain room people

Have we thought about using run speed enchants (+42 AP, 8% run speed meta gem), (Tuskarr's Vitality on boos) come to mind to perhaps artifically mimic the mimiron effect? Cause I think the run speed issue is not as dire for the entire raid, but is very dire for brain roomers.

Dare i suggest: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29530? Just trying to be creative.

 

 

saedo's picture

I'm not sure how many LWs we

saedo — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 11:03

I'm not sure how many LWs we have left for those, esp for Brain Room.

But we have a hunter for Aspect of the Pack, for that final run in.  

As for run speed, I've started advocating it since Mimiron.   I myself only use Cat's Swiftness.  

starstalker's picture

Even I had a run speed

starstalker — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 15:27

Even I had a run speed enchant on my boots, and I think garreth does as well.

Really, shouldn't it almost be mandatory?

saedo's picture

Garreth has ret talent to

saedo — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 15:32

Garreth has ret talent to give him 15% more speed.

Desteran's picture

Myself and nuit that I know

Desteran — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 11:26

Myself and nuit that I know of.

saedo's picture

Grasen too. Though I assume

saedo — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 11:43

Grasen too.

Though I assume it doesn't stack with anything.   So Unholy DKs, and Ret Pallies don't get benefits.     Maybe if they want, pop in beginning for slightly faster movement?   It's really not huge tentacle to tentacle.    Aspect of Pack for the final run probably overrides it all.

carno's picture

DK *might* stack - it's a

carno — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 15:56

DK *might* stack - it's a talent (not aura) and DKs raid in Blood stance rather than unholy stance (unholy stance has +move speed).

saedo's picture

Typically, no speed boosts

saedo — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 16:03

Typically, no speed boosts stack.   Whether it's a talent, aura, boot enchant or whatever.   You just get the highest form of it.

And if they raid in blood presence, able to just switch back and forth when the run is need right?

is it possible to only send

Kwondre — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 12:41

is it possible to only send in characters that can artificially enhance move speed? like send in a group of 2 rogues 3 druids (2 feral, 1 healer)? Hell, even a warrior, who should be able to pop 3 charge/intercepts within 60 seconds...or does a pally/DK have to go in for a reason I'm not aware of?

You're probably right and it probably doesn't stack...but..we can find out in an old fashion ironforge footrace =)

saedo's picture

Raid balance.   Ranged are

saedo — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 13:06

Raid balance.   Ranged are most effective up top.   Melee, in a sense, is most effective in the brain (faster target to target switching).    There are 10 portals, we generally have more than enough melee to fill all of them up.

carno's picture

healer dps?

carno — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 10:53

The only thing I can think is to switch a few healers to DPS. If we keep grouped up, by the time Phase 3 hits, everyone still has plenty of mana and there's so little raid damage, retadins + 1 healer (might as well pop ghost wolves at 10%) would keep the raid up. Stars took 3 tanks and 4 healers (3 tanks for properly, statistically, kiting out beacons). If G and Kaluu went Ret we would have a DPS healer in almost every group. Morgyn and I could each focus heal add tanks and Atak and Zildo could DPS between chain heals and chaining off melee would likely hit add tanks anyways. Just some ideas...

too bad you can't switch specs/gear between phases

Is there a way to parse out

Kwondre — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 06:51

Is there a way to parse out how often people's asses were saved by hodir's protective gaze?

Thats a simple one: find the

Ghli — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 07:03

Thats a simple one: find the people who gain the buff Flash Freeze

Ok it looks like there were

Kwondre — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 07:11

Ok it looks like there were 42 instances of Flash Freeze saving someone over 7 encounters last night...

During our actual kill there were only 2 instances of Flash Freeze - in which we had Mimiron's buffs...

No brainer I think? Or did we just get lucky on the kill attempt...Chuck Hodir next time imo.

saedo's picture

Well, also add 20% more

saedo — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 07:56

Well, also add 20% more damage and see how many people's hp dropped low enough so a 20% spike in a hit would kill them off.   Also, some of that Flash Freeze was Hodir saving someone while everyone was wiping.

We'll have a different set of problems with each Keeper gone.    It's just a matter of finding the best fit for the people we bring to it.

good lucks...overlooked the

Kwondre — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 08:04

good looks...overlooked the damage redux...

saedo's picture

Parses: 

saedo — Mon, 07/20/2009 - 21:32

Parses:  http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-Niq6UIn8icIrPzUx/

Atakheal's picture

i will be around for this,

Atakheal — Mon, 07/20/2009 - 16:31

i will be around for this, lets rock.

Desteran's picture

I want to try something on

Desteran — Mon, 07/20/2009 - 16:25

I want to try something on vezax tonight....speccing hance in spl power gear (shamanistic rage + imp stormstrike + instants when I get a 5 proc of maelstrom).

Desteran's picture

I have to say. I feel like

Desteran — Tue, 07/21/2009 - 08:44

I have to say. I feel like this went fairly well (and was a nice change of pace). The main benefit here is that I did not have to worry about mana. Downside was that my heals were weak (but spammable). I think w/ better use of maelstrom procs + healing wave (im really bad at watching them, need to adjust some mods).

While my strategy is still a work in progress, so far this is what I have worked out:

- Stormstrike whenever its up

- If needed spam LWH on the tank

- Burn Shamanistic Rage early and often

- Help w/ interupts if you have the GCD

- Keep lightning shield up if you have the GCD (little extra dps)

- If nobody is taking dmg, hold your 5 proc of maelstrom and be ready w/ a HW and and LHW spam.

- CH is also affective, but ranged folks are often out of range, heal them when you can.

Dangly's picture

Ready to rock tonight...if

Dangly — Mon, 07/20/2009 - 13:56

Ready to rock tonight...if you need me, of course.

I will not be available

Epatrick — Mon, 07/20/2009 - 12:01

I will not be available tonight, inventory is tomorrow and I have to help prep the candy backroom stuff...I should be home around 1130, good luck tonight.

Nuitarin's picture

Doing Yogg with the

Nuitarin — Mon, 07/20/2009 - 10:29

Doing Yogg with the assistance of 3 out of 4 of the keepers (assuming Thorim is still assisting) is the same as doing the fight with all the keepers assisting. Just use your regular spec. The fight with no keepers assisting requires a different strat altogether and may require you to change your spec, but for now, you dont need to change anything.

the most interesting part

Kwondre — Mon, 07/20/2009 - 11:17

the most interesting part about the Yogg+0 strat i saw was the use of blizzard as the main dps source for a couple reasons:

1) Hits all adds in phase 3 and applies 3% spell crit to each one without a seperate spell

2) Don't have to turn away from Yogg in lunatic gaze, since you can cast blizzard behind you without facing the boss

I'm flexible to the team's directions...but I would like to try this out for one attempt since it would be at the very least good practice for Yogg +0, and at the best - much better raid dps.

saedo's picture

1)  You probabaly mean 5%

saedo — Mon, 07/20/2009 - 11:32

1)  You probabaly mean 5% spell crit.

yea 5% crit...should be

Kwondre — Mon, 07/20/2009 - 12:54

yea 5% crit...should be interesting

I will be respeccing my

Kwondre — Mon, 07/20/2009 - 07:19

I will be respeccing my off-spec to PVE Frost for this fight (whether we do Yogg+0-3) to maximize dps on blizzard, since that's the only spell I can spam without having to face Yogg - and its the spec both mages used in the world first Yogg+0 kill so i figure I should probably get used to it starting now.

But, it will be my first time using that strat on (and only second time killing boss too) - so basically i'm qq'ing right now in advance in case there's some trouble later on =)

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