CoH Priests - totally saw this comming
Keisjaa — Tue, 11/04/2008 - 10:41
Priest
Circle of Healing being watched
Circle of Healing and Wild Growth are definitely on our radar. This would be a good time to discuss them.
Our concern is that they are turning two classes with a large arsenal of healing spells into single-button healers. Meanwhile, ironically, the other two healing classes have fewer heals to use in the first place.
We have seen raid parses where 75 to 90% of a priest's healing is through CoH. It's a good spell, useful in a variety of situations. But I think you can understand our concern.
A priest said to us the other day "Please nerf Circle of Healing so I can push another button!" He's even thinking of going Disc. (src)
*** This is where the official info ends & the slight hostility begins ***
-i knew it was only a matter of time, a smart multi target instant spell...what could possibly be over the top about that?
-75-90% fo healing from CoH, call me a dumbass but that might be due to encounters like fucking FELMYST, TWINS, MURU, KJ where there's a shit ton of AOE dmg
-"a priest said.." [removed curse ridden tirade] seriously..if disc wasn't so bloated & underpowered vs holy in PvE (i'm talking about now) there'd be disc priests in raid , let's review CoH:no CD massive instant heals - Penance: 10-8 sec CD for single target heals....uhhhh toughie
-how long did it take them to give shammies something other than Chain heal to spam....
I'm not trying to sound like a prick or anything (and believe me i'd LOVE to be Disc) but in it's current form it doesn't cut it and i can't penalize my raid for it
Dev's need to learn a bit that they haven't made all healing spells equal & raiders/power players/minmax'rs will use the best ones as often as possible

ive been healing for a very
Sorreah — Wed, 11/05/2008 - 14:53ive been healing for a very long time on both a pally and a priest and i can honestly say that the current state of priests is the most boring i have seen any healing class
i got frustrated with pally healing because we had 2 heals ( maybe 3 but shock was half a joe in the beginning of BC ) and those who were good were only barely able to make the cut in any of the bc raids while an ok pally was near useless in comparison to the other healing classes
so i speced to tank and took my priest back to healing from shadow, i went disc and had a ton of fun it was challenging but i could what was needed to a group.
after some time raiding i was asked to spec CoH for the raid and now i can spam 1 button while watching tv and doing a crossword and still do a more than adequate job. I speced out of a healer that spammed 2 buttons just to get into one that spammed one
now this is a generalization but honestly in the content we are in and the state of priests CoH is what we do and it is exceptionally powerful
it needs to be changed but with that change we need to have a change to the way encounters are done
if blizzard expects to make all its healing classes challenging and competative it needs to take a hard look at the way fights are done you cannot expect to have 25 people be healed through massive aoe by single target healers and you cannot expect healers with massive aoe with no downside to not use it constantly
I can see your point,...
lesda — Wed, 11/05/2008 - 15:31I can see your point about a one button healing class -- I thought that of shammies that spams CH for the most part,... what makes our class a little bit more exciting are the totems,heroism and elementals :)
With 3.0, we were given two more spells which I use between CH,... woot !!!
But priests and pallies got the most buffs imo -- and the patch yesterday gave us a little more. Blizz must have realized how much they gimped us. We don't appear to be the same healing powerhouse pre 3.0
Thus, we've changed our battle-cry to T ftw, instead of CH ftw :)
But, like anything else in wow, don't get comfortable,... change is in the works !!! :)
I like the dialogue here comparing the mechanics of various healing classes.
I do however have to say that
Keisjaa — Tue, 11/04/2008 - 10:57I do however have to say that Beacon of light is a GREAT way to deal with an AoE healing mechanic(not as easily spread out & spammable as CoH yet useful)
part of me hopes that the WotLK encounters will nececcitate CoH/CH a lot less & make it more variety(something akin to fel rage/Illidan's Barrage, etc where a disc priest'd be tuned for it)
Oh well we'll see...
I've got to agree that Beacon
garreth — Tue, 11/04/2008 - 11:24I've got to agree that Beacon has been an incredible talent. Fun, useful, and not-quite-OP. It's that kind of design ingenuity that Blizzard needs to keep doing!
Keisj,.... I'm slow,...
lesda — Tue, 11/04/2008 - 12:10I'm reading the patch notes but where did they say they are "nerf-ing" CoH ?
Sorry,... not used to healing as priest -- but have one coming along :)
Glad to see that they are giving resto shammies extra "umph" for heals though :)
I'm re-reading your comments,... sounds like this is in the works but not yet implemented in 3.0.3?
I think Sunwell really fucked
garreth — Tue, 11/04/2008 - 10:51I think Sunwell really fucked a lot of design for Blizzard in the long run. It's a chicken-and-the-egg issue for them at the moment:
Remember when Hamfist used to run with three resto druids and three paladins and MAYBE one CoH priest or resto shammy? Remember how much we suffered for it on all the f'ing massive AoE fights? Even Vashj and Kael back in the day said "OMG 25 PEOPLE JUST TOOK 6K DAMAGE, HEAL THEM UP!"
I would love to see end game fights in Wrath where, if the raid performs correctly, the AoE is negligible and "focus" healers can soar. However, I would also love to see a correctly-performing raid....
G, that was fun! lol
Vulk — Tue, 11/04/2008 - 10:55G, that was fun! lol
Imo, should just revert the
Agoney — Tue, 11/04/2008 - 10:49Imo, should just revert the change and have it only heal the player and their selected group. Put a 2sec CD on it. That gives 2ish seconds to do something else.
frankly
moriella — Wed, 11/05/2008 - 01:03If they change COH, this will be the 6th 'restyle' of how priests heal in raids
1. 40 man MC days - Priests had a heal rotation, when you went LoM another priest stepped in and began healing while you let your spirit regen you. Druids had to spec to innervate, innervate CD's were popped when healing got tough for certain periods of time. Pallies kept up the raid.
2. Shadow priests were discovered. I was told to spec shadow for 5 mans and run with a druid. I kept the majority of healing up on a 5 man while the druid would stop Dps from time to time a pop off a heal if things got tricky
3. Hybird healing increased because of lack of healers. Other healing classes get situational spells that push the role of the primary healer in game to secondary. Pallies, master of fast heal, druids master of hots. Priests role in a raid was to preload big slow heals and stop casting when they were not needed. Because of the other casters in raid, the actual landing time for these big heals to be needed was only during these 'high burst damage' to the tank in boss fights. G heal was constantly beaten by multiple druid hots and a couple plaiie heals on the tank. Lets say tank suddendly dropped 7k health from a crushing blow - priest g heal was loading and at 30% ready to cast - in the next two seconds hots would tick from a couple druids and 2 pallies on 'raid heal' would flash him. Now the tank is at -2k health by the time the gheal goes off. This reduced h priests on the meters to at best middle of the pack unless they overhealed constantly, forcing them to pot pot feind (which bliz says 'not as intended') - This method of priest utilization caused priests to start losing raid spots because they did not appear as efficient 'on the meters'
4. Late game content finally brought priests back in the raid with CoH. Once again making them seem valuable because of the huge amount of AoE damage in some Boss fights and in lots of trash pulls. This game design by bliz put them back on top of the meters and opened raid spots back up for them. Many times a CoH priest was a must for some encounters.
5. In their infinate wisdom, Blizz buffed CoH TWICE. First by increasing it's output from using more of your +healing as a modifier. Then as if it wasnt 'good enough' (reminder CoH priest was allready on top of meters), they made it 'smart' too. Now, it's face roll healing. I dont even have to pick a group to use CoH on - I just cast it on myself over and over again and it picks it's targets
6. Now, from looking at the new changes to the Disc Priest - it looks like a disc priest is the ultimate MT healer. However, most of the efforts of the Disc Priest in this role will never show on a meter. Reduction of damage to the MT, reflection of damage to the tank, stablilization of damage to the tank, 'oh shit' button for the tank. It's very possible that a disc priest will be very good placed on the main tank, perhaps with only one raid druid running HoT's on him. However, this contribution of a Disc Priest on raid will NOT show on the all important meters. This will eventually cause loss of raid spots again because the job of the disc priest can be done by a few other members of the raid.
It appears, from what I'm reading that raiding just inst going to be as difficult as it was in the past. If Blizz tuned content to require massive dps - forcing raids to being less healers, this could insure a Disc Priest spot for the MT, releaseing more healer spots to be filled with dps classes. But because of previous actions, players have rolled hybrid classes, not to play as a hybrid, but to play as a full time healer.
When CoH is nerfed (and I'm convinced it will be) our spot will be as a Disc priest, and we only need one in Raid. A couple months/weeks running in that position - showing up as 5-8th on the meters, will eventually cause even the most open minded guild to look at other ways to heal the tank.
The days of 'not worrying about overheal' MAY be behind us. Overheal = wasted mana and mana has been made much more precious in wotlk.
I've healed during each of the above priest play styles and managed to be valuable to a raid in some manner each time. bottom ine, I guess we have to wait and see what happens. Blizzard has created this monster. Blizz has also said that the 'next great thing' post wotlk is a total revamp of 'how healing is done'. While I admit, I miss alot of fights because I'm totally focused on 'moving all the bars to the right' - but if they make healing simple, I dont think i'll enjoy it nearly as much. I play healers in games because I like the challange, the responsibility of keeping others alive and helping a raid succeed. If this 'edge of the seat excietment' goes away... I might as well re roll rogue
Thanks Moriella,...
lesda — Wed, 11/05/2008 - 11:32That was a very concise explanation of priest healing,....and also how raid instances have evolved.
One cannot help but think that Blizz did not put tools like "meters" in the game but yet we have all gravitated to it. For myself, I know that it was gratifying to see myself at least in the top 3 or 5 for healing. However, this has now become a tool for the race to the #1 spot. Whatever happened to raid composition and making sure everyone survives a boss encounter? I know in the back of the raid leaders mind this has got to be tantamount -- but it simply gets lost in the translation.
I know that when I (was asked to) spec'd resto, I went in with the approach that my totems are going to help the group as a whole-- and not about individual performance. Pretty soon I began to see myself at the top spot -- I was starting to take hits from the "meter crackpipe" -- it was very self-aggrandizing.
I'm thinking there will be an improved version of "meter" to show contribution value of a Disc Priest imo.
Nonetheless, if keeping the raid alive is the challenge,... it's always good to have a good knowledgebase of what's available, and it's current strengths and weaknesses. I've always been so focused on my class -- this provides a wider perspective.
Thanks :)
If you are a healer in our
Epatrick — Wed, 11/05/2008 - 03:04If you are a healer in our raids, there will most likely be an abundance of spots open to you, regardless of your choice of healing tree.