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Poll
What do you think about no flying for an entire expansion?
YES) It makes me feel more immersed in the game lore.
15%
YES) It encourages more PvP! (Please explain how in comments)
5%
YES) I miss riding my ground mounts.
9%
MAYBE) If you make all of my flying mounts able to be ground too.
8%
MAYBE) if ground mounts are sped up to 200% speed (or higher)
26%
NO) I don't have enough time when I'm on to be riding everywhere
7%
NO) I have spent too much time getting various levels of flying to be wasting it.
11%
NO) It encourages more PVP! (please explain in the comments)
0%
NO) I love flying.
19%
Total votes: 74
21,193 files:
saedo — Thu, 05/28/2009 - 02:1921,193 files: http://stats.downfallguild.org/kb/sws-overall-1243474503/index.html
Another excellent raid. Keep
Shihli — Wed, 05/27/2009 - 22:41Another excellent raid. Keep up the good work and we'll have Yogg dead on Friday.
Parses:
saedo — Wed, 05/27/2009 - 22:26Parses: http://wowwebstats.com/b5qciix4xqaqo
I came home with a prety bad
Vulk — Wed, 05/27/2009 - 17:11I came home with a prety bad migraine. here's to hoping that it will clear up inside the hour. If I'm not on by 7:30 Im probably trying Ag's lying on the bathroom floor trick still; feel free to replace me.
Haha, best remedy im telling
Agoney — Wed, 05/27/2009 - 22:05Haha, best remedy im telling you. Hopefully it worked for ya!
And if you're having trouble
Derchlon — Wed, 05/27/2009 - 17:10And if you're having trouble judging when to not bother reapplying your dots when a boss is about to die, you might want to think about picking up a nice mod called Time to Die. It calculates, based on the rate the boss is losing health, how much time left you have in the fight. If the time is less than 24 seconds in this case, you don't have to worry about reapplying.
Edit: Also, I'm going to try another means to raid tonight. If my performance isn't optimal ( and I'll let you know early), you can just replace me again. Patch 3.1 is at 63% as we speak.
Improving my dps
Vitriola — Wed, 05/27/2009 - 08:20I have been thinking long about last night's 25 man. I know that I was trying to not be stupid and did not take any hits for the fail boat, though I must confess that I have no idea what that add on was measuring. I was very disappointed that I only got a 3358 overall dps and needed to figure out why. The fights were new to me and I took a moment to figure things out now and then but there was more to it than that, I was sure. I decided to compare my parse with Forshurley as the only other warlock in the raid.
Forshurley has just over 150 spell power more than I do but there is at least one difference that is noticable. Here is what I saw:
Forshurley's top damage spells:
incinerate at 41% of total damage did an average of 5634 with 0.1% misses
conflagrate at 17% of total damage did an average of 5809 with 0% misses
chaos bolt at 12% of total damage did an average of 6537 with 0% misses
immolate at 11% of total damage did an average of 1774 with 0.5% misses
seed of corruption at 9% of total damage did an average of 2037 with 0.2% misses
pet at 8% of total damage did an average of 958
Vitriola's top damage:
rain of fire at 32% of total damage did an average of 1489 with 1.6% misses
pet swing at 21% of total damage did an average of 1176
incinerate at 19% of total damage did an average of 4572 with 6.4% misses
immolate at 10% of total damage did an average of 1924 with 4.6% misses
pet cleave at 7% of total damage did an average of 1288
Forshurley is destro and I am not so I do not even have conflagrate or chaos bolt. Forshurley's incinerate is 1.1k more per hit on average, though my immolate is better. /flex The real corker is the missing! On single target spells, I missed 4.6% - 6.4% of the time compared to 0.0% - 0.5%! Forshurley has a 292 to hit and I have 166. Also, I do not have three points in suppression which gives a good boost in the to hit stat. (I *really* should have tried harder for that staff with the 120 hit stat. /bangs head on keyboard)
Well, I think that I have a start for improving the damage. I might even change to Forshurley's raid spec and see if I can get things improved. I spent a while looking at the build and it is very nicely done.
One question I have is, would the follow up raid for this 25 man be a good place to try that new spec (for me) or should I keep waddling along as I have been? The three points in suppression could be a big improvement.
Any other tips you might have?
For What it's Worth
Scaron — Wed, 05/27/2009 - 23:33I'm certainly not one of the *great* locks out there, but I do have a few thoughts as I've recently seen my dps increase somewhat.
That's all for now, hit me up if you have questions. I may not be the best lock in practice, but i've read a lot and if I can help, I'm willing.
Hey Scaron! Thanks for
Vitriola — Thu, 05/28/2009 - 05:09Hey Scaron!
Thanks for replying!
Excellent advice. Many thanks for it.
p.s. I am starting to think that I should have put this on my app page instead. Sorry for all this on the raid page.
spellpower
Scaron — Thu, 05/28/2009 - 10:37Largely a spellpower decrease from changing to deep destro from demo comes from the spec change not the gem / gear / enchant change. Demo just gives you an insane amount of spellpower...sadly at the expense of personal DPS in most cases. Completely unbuffed (w/o Fel Armor) I'm usually sitting at about 2050 ish. Then, I go up from there throughout a fight. Probably, the loss of that extra spellpower isn't really hurting you all that much given what you gain from the extra crit in Destro.
But now that you have that extra crit in Destro, you need to make it work for you. That means being able to cast Chaos Bolt and Conflagrate EVERY time they're off cooldown.
You mentioned that there's nothing good re: addons to track destro stuff. I disagree. DoTimer has lots of great options for tracking all sorts of spells and giving you information about when they should be cast. Obviously it can keep track of dots like Immolate, Corr, and CoA. But, there are also options for keeping track of cooldowns (read: Conflagrate and Chaos Bolt). If you think of a cooldown much like a DoT and cast the spell exactly when the cooldown is up (just like you would do with a dot) you can essentially use DoTimer Cooldown timer as a cheap What-do-I-cast-next indicator. Now, you've still got to use your head...you can't just cast conflagrate if Immolate isn't up, and chaos bolt probably should be prioritized over refreshing Corr or CoA, for example (read EJ for other notes on destro spell priorities).
Also, if'n you've glyphed lifetap, you can use the DoTimer playeraura's timer to tell you when lifetap needs to be recast (which should result in you casting LT about every 20 seconds to give you a HUGE sp boost...essentially gives you around a 250-300 sp boost for the duration of a fight...it should be up anytime you cast a spell.)
The big danger in using Dotimer like this is the same danger a healer has with watching grid. You can actually get lost in DoTimer...so remember to watch your feet.
A few other random things I noticed:
As long as you've respecced and you're now regularly using CB and Conflag, firestone may well be a better choice. However, if you're still only spamming Incin, it may actually be in your best interest to grab spellstone for haste and to boost your dot output. This point is moot if you've switched to using CB and Conflag.
I noticed Mori mentioned (elsewhere in this thread) the use of the sp and increased crit meta...I think he actually means the +crit +crit damage meta. A note on this meta: you'll need some blue gems to activate it's worth. I suggest the +sp +spirit (unless the +sp +haste gems are blue but i don't think they are.)
Final note on Affliction ;). I'm not sure Affliction took a huge nerf relative to any other lock spec for the last MAJOR patch. Sure we lost some spells but we gained the ability to have our dots crit and in certain fights (like Hodir or Yogg) those dot crits can be staggering. I've seen my corruption crit for a 20k tick on Hodir.
Affliction looks good!
Vitriola — Thu, 05/28/2009 - 11:49You make many good points in favor of running affliction. You are getting me in my soft spot as I have always liked dotting ever since I was a necro on EQ back in the day. I am going to spec for it and see how I do against a dummy. If I can get the hang of it, I will use it. I have tried it before and did tolerably well against bosses and not so much against trash. (Remember that this is relative. heh) I will see what I can do.
OBTW, which pet do you recommend with affliction raiding? I expect you to say imp, but sucky :) does more damage and fel gives good raid buffage. I ask because I wanted to try that pet against the dummy while I practice the new stuff.
My gems will be given a big overhaul. I will remove 40-45 of my to hit and replace it with spell power. Also, I will upgrade my enchants on my head and staff. I will see if I can correct the sons of hodir quest chain and get rep going with them for the shoulders.
I feel like a new warlock. There is more than just a new coat of paint here. I scarcely recognize myself. :)
changed gems and enchants
Vitriola — Fri, 05/29/2009 - 06:47I have yet to do the shoulders because I have to do the sons of hodir stuff first. Quest repairs are always interesting. However, I got all the rest done yesterday. I did not replace the meta gem on the hat because this one has spell power and the alternative did not. I replaced to hit with spell power and am still hit capped. I added a belt buckle and put spell power in there per the recommendation of other guild locks. I chipped in and Blue was able to acquire the staff enchant of +81 spell power. Very sexy staff now!
I have deep affliction specced. I have practiced on a dummy and can keep the rotation going consistently. I got a new set of add ons to help with that. Rahl says that it is his purpose in life to entice me to the destro side of the force. It is "quicker and more seductive" but not stronger, or so I have been told. :)
FYI
one more time vit
moriella — Fri, 05/29/2009 - 09:15Have you ever used RAWR ? If not I suggest you get it and learn how to use it. You have made poor gem selections again.
1. [Chaotic Skyfire Diamond] is worth 45 dps over the one you are using. Change to it. Period.
2. Your green +hit gems are worthless - change both of them to Purified Shadow (+SP, +Spirit) - this change is worth 8dps per gem, a total of 16dps for two gems
3. You should not be gemming for crit except on the meta - change your orange gems to sp/haste vs sp/crit - this change is worth 2 dps per gem, a total of 4 dps. HASTE is always > CRIT for you. The only reason the meta is so good is the crit damage, not crit chance
these changes are going to put you 2 points under hit cap - however after running it thru RAWR it's worth it in this instance as you are picking up enough dps to offset the .05% chance to miss.
ps - you are now over the limit on the 299 repaint special, we are gonna have to talk about this :p
I also recommend you read this thread http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t37900-dots_you_affliction_warlock_thread/ - It clearly spells out the gemming that I explained above but I ran it thru RAWR again just to make sure.
change trinket back vit
moriella — Fri, 05/29/2009 - 09:24Switch back to your [Embrace of the Spider] and ditch the [Extract of Necromantic Power]
This is a 72 dps increase from just this one switch
I have one of those?
Vitriola — Fri, 05/29/2009 - 16:35I have one of those?
thought so
moriella — Fri, 05/29/2009 - 17:05I thought I saw it on your armory a few days ago
Yeah, Rahn loves him some
Scaron — Fri, 05/29/2009 - 08:04Yeah, Rahn loves him some destro. And if you look at his meters, you'll see why.
Bottom line: I think one should choose the lock spec that works best with the way your brain / playstyle works. Both destro and afflic are capable of producing high dps, you gotta do the one that gives you most.
I've been thinking a little more about DOT uptime numbers (which pertains to both afflic and destro), and Mori is, as is often the case, right. DoT uptime should be as close to 100 percent as possible. BUT, it's important to note that there are good reasons for not refreshing dots immediately after they run out. For instance, you shouldn't, say, cancel a Chaos Bolt or Incinerate if a dot runs out during your cast time. Cancelling spells = wasted cast time and you should be casting 100 percent of the time (or as close to it as possible). This is especially the case if a dot like CoA or Corr runs out. These are much lower priority dots than Immolate. If both of these dots are up, but you have a conflagrate or chaos bolt to cast you should be casting those spells as they have a higher priority (DPCT wise).
All that to say this: I've seen a more reasonable estimate of how much DoT uptime to have as being as close to 90% as possible. 90% is probably at about the high end...more reasonable numbers are in the 87-88% range. If you're doing more you may be a) clipping dots which will result in lower dps or b) casting spells out of the proper prioritized order which will also result in lower dps.
I'm not a parse / uptime expert though, and if I'm wrong please correct me.
dot uptime
Vitriola — Fri, 05/29/2009 - 08:29Hey again, Scary! :)
As to dot uptime, I think that you are pretty much spot on for affliction dotting. It is important to affliction damage to not clip dots with one exception... Haunt. That one has a buff that boosts the damage on all the other dots. It does little actual damage comparitively, so clipping does not hurt that overly, but letting it just drop will affect all the others. 100% dot uptime means that I would be clipping and that is bad, as you rightly say. Under 90% also seems a bit low to me, but I will see when I get a chance to give it a run. I am expecting to be 95% or a bit more for stand still fights. Anything less should only be occuring when I am running around or reminding Blue during an important fight that he is a goober. (We all have our priorities. <G>)
As to which lock spec to play, I would have to say that I love my dots. Other things being equal, I prefer to fight with dots. Affliction is the most self sustaining spec there is and I love it. OTOH, I do love seeing huge numbers when I am putting the hurt on. How to choose, how to choose... I will go with affliction. If it does not sing as well as I hoped, I will use a dual spec and have Rahl teach me to use the dark side of the force, if he is willing. I expect that he will be as he seems to love the notion of converts. :)
Technically speaking Haunt
Scaron — Fri, 05/29/2009 - 11:10Technically speaking Haunt isn't really a dot. It's a debuff with a duration. And you're right, you should cast it whenever it's off CD...but you're not really clipping it. Think of it as recasting Corruption with a dmg bonus.
If you can hit 90+ dot uptime w/o clipping then rad. You can always see if you're clipping by checking your parses. Also remember with all specs it's always best to have a nearly 100 percent uptime for LifeTap glyph...so another thing to sacrifice dot uptime...all those GCDs add up *sigh*.
One other thing re: clipping. We haven't really talked about is what happens when your target is below 25% health. You already know this i'm sure, but you'll be substituting Drain Soul for SBs. Clipping a channeled spell, in this case, is required. You get a dmg bonus based on the number of Dots you have up on the target, so when you're DSing you always want to have your dots up at the same time. This means that you will have to clip this spell in order to refresh lifetap, haunt, CoA, and UA. Practice this one on the target dummy, timing is tricky. You'll always want to refresh but not by wasting almost 3 seconds b/t DS ticks. Which means, of course, that you'll be waiting until DS ticks, then interrupt to recast whichever dots need recasting, then back to DS. See the EJ thread Mori posted and practice this...it's as hard as hell, but it gives you a max of like 8-9k dps when the target is below 25%.
Right now the recommended pet
Scaron — Thu, 05/28/2009 - 12:19Right now the recommended pet for affliction is actually the Doomguard (another short / easy questline at 80). The doomguard does like 1.2k damage and lasts for 15 minutes and is on a 30 minute CD. Use it whenever you can. Then comes the infernal, way shorter uptime for the infernal but it's a quick way to pop a pet back up when yours has gone down anyway...and you can get like 1k dps out of it if the situation is right (think adds on Razorscale or tossing him into the middle of a pile of XT bombots). After those options are exhausted then comes the Succubus and not far behind is the Felhunter.
The imp sucks for affliction because you're skipping all the talents that make it good. If you stay destro, the imp is your best choice as I understand it.
Also re: trash mobs. Everything changes. Seed of Corruption / Rain of Fire and bring plenty of repair gold....cuz you're gonna die...a lot.
Doomguard I have
Vitriola — Thu, 05/28/2009 - 12:44I did the doomguard quest and have it and carry the mats. I think that I currently have 3 stacks for 15 total. The biggest problem I have with the sucky is that she keeps saying "I'm with stupid!" BAH! :) I will use the doomguard more.
Seed is fun for affliction and it means a lot of big repair bills, as you say.
will correct any spec only 299$ apply to downfall today!!
moriella — Thu, 05/28/2009 - 12:03way over hit cap now
moriella — Thu, 05/28/2009 - 07:11Grats on getting some good gear last night!!! I noticed you immediatly gemmed and enchanted it all right after raid. \
1. You gemmed for enough hit to take you all the way to 309 post raid. With 3/3 talent points you are now 46 points OVER the hit cap. Hit cap does not scale. Once you reach the maximum you get no further benefit from +hit. Reenchant your boots with tuskarrs vitality to lose 12 hit. Then I recommend you drop 2 of your yellow +16 hit gems and one of your +8 hit/stam green gems. This will put you in line with hit cap. In our raids you will ALWAYS have a sp/boomkin and a draeni. Your target +hit is 263, no more - unless you drop talent points which I dont recommend at this point
2. Get a belt buckle and gem it with +16 spell power
3. Change your meta gem. Warlocks should be using the spell power/crit meta
4. regem with red +sp gems. Keep only enough non red gems to activate your meta. Your socket bonus on gear really isnt that impressive (robe and gloves in particular) so dont freak if you lose a bonus on a particular piece of gear. even +6 haste is such a tiny amount that +16 spell power in a red gem is almost always better
5. Get the correct enchant for your staff that you won last night.There is a +81 spell power enchant for your staff that is very cheap on mats. This weapon deserves much more than a +50 sp chant.
6. Get out there and grind kirin tor rep and sons of hodir rep. Having a resil enchant on your head and shoulders tells me one of two things. No clue how to gear, or (in this case) never ran 5 mans or bothered with hodir. Kirin Tor rep is incredibly easy to get.
7. Do you mine much anymore? Its no longer a very good source of income. With the nerf to JC incoming, I suggest you look at dropping it and picking up enchanting to go with your tailor. You can get additional +sp enchants for your rings and leveling enchanting with a tailor is reasonably inexpensive - I did it yesterday using Moriella to craft and sending them to my alt to d/e and level my alts enchanting with the d/e'd mats. I think I spent somewhere around 1000-1500 gold on cloth to get to a 400ish level enchanting. The bonus from mining is +stam which doesnt make much sense for pve lock.
I KNOW I've been criticized for saying this in the past, but I feel this situation makes my point about alot of our guild apps. A player who has not taken the time to run 5 mans, get rep, run acheivements, and raided content pre naxx really has no idea how to play at this level. Naxx devastated this expansion for raider quality. Allowing newish characters to skip tons of content, not making them rep grind and letting them go direct into Naxx where they could faceroll to some degree of success was a horrible game design. We can see here what that has caused- A character who has the right attitude to raid with us and is a very likable person but who, do to game design, really has no idea how to play or equip his character at raid levels. This is not your fault Vit, it's blizzard's fault.
If you want to play near the top of your game you need to read and grind heroics and naxx with bad pugs. This will serve to get you more 'in the seat' time and make you more comfortable with your class. Install recount. Learn from it. Pugg, Pugg, Pugg. Use recount to compare yourself with other players in your group. You've gotten enough gear now that you are capable of blowing away most anyone that you pug with in terms of DPS.
I didnt expect to see you come into our raid and do 6k+ dps, like great warlocks are capable of. However, I think it's fair of our raid to expect you to perform at a minimum of 80% of what your spec is capable of. Your numbers and the choices you make on your gear gemming and enchants indicate to me that even if we could insta buff you with 500 more spell power we wouldnt see much out of it
Id love to see you get to 5k dps within a weeks time and see you as a regular raider. You've certainly got the attitude for it and seem like a very likable person who would fit well with us. Unfortunatly, there really is no quick way to get experience and class knowledge. You just cant replace hours and hours doing instances.
Wow, I didn't know about
garreth — Thu, 05/28/2009 - 10:11Wow, I didn't know about http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=62948 until I thought you made a mistake in your post and I went to edit it. Let us know if you need mats, if we have them we'll toss them your way.
Vit, one of the big things that helped Forshurley out was a DoT timer mod that Watches uses. That coupled with a really specific "cast this but not this" discussion, helped get 'Shurley up a lot higher.
I'm really stoked to see how far you've come. I like to use this little tool for a quick go-over on a bit of gear: http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=us&server=Gorgonnash&name=Vitriola
The little arrows in the gear area indicate upgrades. You're still rocking a green gem and DEFINITELY need a new helm enchant. Anyhoo, it's a good start. As a matter of fact, I just realized that I need to upgrade my enchant on my bracers!
Moriella, good advice
Vitriola — Thu, 05/28/2009 - 08:35Moriella, good advice on the gemming. I will do that today.
6. I have max exalted for kirin tor. I got the sons of hodir quests screwed up somehow and have never been able to finish them so I could not do the dailies though I can with my other 80s. I will look again into fixing this.
7. I just may change to enchanting as I do not use mining much anymore. Besides, my dk is also a max miner for the JC so I am not losing much. I also hope to get to 5k dps within a week. I am trying to find the "sweet spot" for this. I am looking to spend some time on a practice dummy with the three builds and see just what I can work things out to.
I have run all the 5 mans available many times and pugged in naxx until I woke up in cold sweats. Actually, I have only done occulus a handful of times. I hate that one! :)
Thanks again for the tips. I will get on them at once.
Long story short, go to
Shihli — Wed, 05/27/2009 - 11:07Long story short, go to elitistjerks.com and look up raiding builds.
You're worried about performing worse than last night ... well, to put it bluntly, that's almost not possible!
You've got room for improvement so dig in and start working on it.
(NOTE - I mean no offense but I won't sugarcoat it, either)
alas, I agree
Vitriola — Wed, 05/27/2009 - 11:55I am digging in. The list I had been referencing was http://wowmb.net/forums/f76/34755-fallenmans_3_1_2_quick_raid_spec_rundown/ but I shall compare to elitist jerks. I use them more for my other toons but I will look into their posts for warlocks.
And no need to sugar coat things. You were neither cruel nor even unkind. That is enough. Honest is always the best. We can save the BS for joking around times. I intend to get better and need to look honestly at things. That is why I was willing to point out my own shortcomings when I found them. I had never seen a parse of any raid I was in like this before. This was all new information to me. If I was a drinking man, this would definitely be the time for it. :)
I like this guy.
garreth — Wed, 05/27/2009 - 12:06I like this guy.
hit capped
moriella — Wed, 05/27/2009 - 11:11Coming to a raid and not being hit capped is pretty bad. If I'm not mistaken the hit cap for locks varies based on your spec, so dont just try to match another locks amount of +hit. Do the research and find out how much +hit your spec needs
Your dot uptime is horrible. I looked at hodir since it's basically a single target fight and your dots should be up 100% on one target
CoA 60% uptime
Corruption 43% uptime
on XT i found the following
CoA 69% uptime
Corruption 57% uptime
looking at gear I notice you have WAY too much crit, way to little haste. Low level chant on weapon, no belt buckle on waist, wrong enchant on pants, wrong enchant on shoulders, wrong enchant on cloak (you are a tailor ffs), overall poor choice on gear as almost none has hit on it.
I dont think you can fix this quickly.
Hit capping is good.
Vitriola — Wed, 05/27/2009 - 11:43Hi Moriella!
Thanks for your post. I agree that I need to be hit capped. I have been reading the theory crafters on the warlock's den (wowmb.net) where they discussed the math of increased spell power vs. increased hit. Their consensus was that spell power was better with medium hit rating. That is what I went for, though I do realize that I need to gear up.
As to haste vs. crit, again I relied on the warlock's den. The short of the opinion there is haste for affliction, and crit for destro. They have long articles with lots of math. I went with the opinion of their wunderkind posters and my dps did increase. It was almost always at the top until downfall. :)
Still, for coa and corruption, those dots are not really the point of my build. I am not affliction so keeping all dots humming is not quite the same for me. My real damage comes from incinerate. On the den's threads there is even debate over using those two dots at all. There are those that say that the casting time is better spent on a destro spell as those dots do not do much damage by comparison. For example, Forsurley almost never used corruption and did not use coa at all as I read the parses.
Still, I am open to change. That is why I am considering Forsurley's build: it includes the affliction's hit talent. Were you thinking that I should change to affliction?