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Home › Forums › World of Warcraft General › Theorycraft › Warlock

Still more Warlock DPS

Scaron's picture

Scaron — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 10:44

For those of you looking to work out how to be a destro warlock, and I know there are a couple of us, you might be interested in looking at this log file from Watchesup's showing on Hodir last night.

This fight led to about 7.7k dps (or a little more), I consider that to be a mark to strive for by most anyone's standards.

I hope watches will weigh in on this and fix any errors I'm making in my read of the parse.

That said, here are a few things of note:

1. He's using CoE, which is good but I don't think there's any benefit from more than one warlock using it. That said, if another one of us is using it (assuming more than 1 lock in raid) his dps could go up even higher with something like CoD. Given when CoE shows up in the log, it seems like he's casting it enroute to the place where he's going to stand to kill shit.

2. Here's what I can gather about priorities:

Immolate seems to be priority number one. Note, I could not find ONE SINGLE INSTANCE where he clipped immo. He seems to wait until it's totally out and have it back up about 1.5 to 2 seconds after its last tick.

Conflagrate is priority number two. Conflagrate gets cast very nearly once every 10 seconds (maybe 11 or 12 seconds here or there)...for a 10 second CD this means he's hitting it almost everytime it's up.

Chaos Bolt clearly comes after Confl, as sometimes there are longer gaps b/t casts. Still, it seems like this is getting cast about every 15-20 seconds-ish (that means there's sometimes up to 8 seconds of downtime). Lots of reasons this could be on Hodir...for instance this filter on the log doesn't tell us when he was out breaking out frozen ppl.

Incinerate is the fourth priority. (Although on Hodir, his Incin was hitting for a metric asston of dmg.) This may have been the reason for more gaps in CB. And who's to argue w/ 7.7 k on hodir? Plus I'm noticing that at some points he was getting about 5-6 incinerates in a row before something else needed to be cast.

For my money, I'm loving what this means for me as destro, I think. About 4 main spells to mash (and keeping up CoD ...which with a 60 sec CD is not too bad). I've always had a hard time knowing for sure what I should be casting if all of my dotimer bars are going to run out at the same time.

Some things I wonder...Watches, please help if you can...did you find yourself standing around a campfire much. You seem to be casting much more than I could. 

I know Hodir isn't a standstill fight and there's target switching which makes it difficult to judge rotation. However, lots of Ulduar is that way, so this fight may not be as bad of a meter of what to do rotation-wise.

What do others notice?

Edit: here's the Kologarn log for the same thing and the Thorim log. I can't determine that much (rotation and priority wise) changes from the Hodir fight.

‹ Teach me to be Better!this is me ›
  • Warlock

Can someone tell me how to

texhex — Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:10

Can someone tell me how to get to 10K =)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8nve8o5GOCOiwPj9/sum/damageDone/?s=33...

The Hodir fight gives me a headache.

garreth's picture

Also, [item]Formula: Enchant

garreth — Wed, 07/15/2009 - 15:53

Also, [45059]

garreth's picture

Well, besides enchanting your

garreth — Wed, 07/15/2009 - 15:52

Well, besides enchanting your helm and shoulders (http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=us.andorhal.texhex), what approach are you generally taking to getting into the various buffs that Hodir requires?  I know that on some of our best Hodir hard mode shots, our locks and mages absolutely blow shit up by taking proper advantage of the raid buffs:

  • http://wowwebstats.com/kctjxoycmg1wg?s=55139-99078
  • http://wowwebstats.com/kctjxoycmg1wg?s=344481-397080
  • http://wowwebstats.com/kctjxoycmg1wg?s=399525-441495
  • http://wowwebstats.com/kctjxoycmg1wg?s=443301-489976

What is your raid's approach to breaking out the helper NPCs?  How long is Missy Flamecuffs (or Sissy, i can't remember) buff up on the boss?

Not sure what is up with the

texhex — Sun, 07/26/2009 - 18:24

Not sure what is up with the gear. I know I don't have enough rep for proper shoulder enchant but it's not that big of a difference.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Andorhal&n=Texhex

What I ended up doing is using Power Auras to make it obvious when I have each buff. It helped raise my dps (over all) quit a bit.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/6258499#damageout

It looks like you guys have a pretty cool guild. Good luck with the hard modes. We start those shortly.

Vitriola's picture

What is a reasonable goal?

Vitriola — Fri, 06/12/2009 - 12:40

I have been trying to figure out just what my dps *should* be.  I looked at the spells that did my biggest damage and got my average hit from a parse.  It breaks down as follows:

                   avg   casting time    dps
immolate    1863    1.3             1433
incinerate    5692    2               2846
conflagrate  5676    1               5676
chaos bolt   6712    2               3356
cod             14144   60              235
     
The average of this, when multiplied by 1.2 (for lifetap) turns out to be 3251.  I think that the curse of doom is throwing off the calculations as just averaging [the top 4] * 1.2 is almost 4k.  With cod, that should be perhaps 4.2k.  Also it assumes that I never have to move, and that all spells hit.  It also assumes that I never clip anything by even 0.1 seconds and that the lifetap buff is always up without my having to cast for it.  This is more of a patchwerk fight I am theorizing. 

Am I thinking about this correctly?  If I am, then my goal is to break 4k on fights where movement is minimal to none but not a whole lot more and I am still trying to find the correct target to aim at.

edit: actually, chaos bolt and incinerate both take more than 2 seconds to cast.  I rounded down to simplify the math.

Agoney's picture

The basic rule with any type

Agoney — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 11:24

The basic rule with any type of DOT is to maximize uptime.. To reword it, dont recast it early or too late (there are some exceptions). I haven't played a warlock since tbc so i'm not really up with all the new changes and SB spam isn't there anymore, so this is about as much advice as I can give.

 

Being a shadowpriest, the goal was to have my VT and pre wotlk, SW:P, tick to the very last second to get that final tick, and then reapply. Anything with instant cast is easy to do, as well as cast time dots. As long as you use some type of dot timer you should be able to predict when you can begin to cast your Dot in the correct time. There should be minimal time b/w last tick and reapply (im talking milliseconds). If you cut your last tick off, your losing DPS. If you wait too long to reapply, your losing DPS.

There are exceptions, but highly situational. IE, I used to always re-apply dots right before the 45 sec prison phase on Illidan, even if there timers weren't expiring. If I have to move and won't be able to cast, I'll reapply dots at the very last second (think heigan). While the DPS is a good measuring stick, make sure you look at the total damage down when you compare yourself to others/classes. If you look at the old parses, you can see how most of the time I'd be lucky to break top 5 DPS, but I'd usually be top 3 total damage down for the fight (usually).

The main thing you have to learn is how to play to the strengths of your class, and the encounter your on. I don't really give much attention to these DPS class guides and such.. unless they explain each boss/situation for you they're really not much of a help. Being a GOOD damage dealing player is knowing more then knowing what rotation to follow, or what cooldown to hit first.

saedo's picture

Watches shouldn't be using

saedo — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 11:16

Watches shouldn't be using CoE.  You have a Boomkin.  Same spell damage debuff, Earth and Moon.    Watches, go do more damage with CoD.   

Scaron's picture

In fairness to Watches, he

Scaron — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 11:22

In fairness to Watches, he mentioned to me that he was aware of this. I can't remember his reasoning right now, but it did seem (to my memory) to be reasonable.

saedo's picture

Is he the only one capable of

saedo — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 11:42

Is he the only one capable of keeping the debuff up 100%?    Not even other locks?      Cause if Watches can top dps while gimping his own dps debuffing the boss...   Might as well push his potential up further by delegating that responsibility to someone else.

garreth's picture

Careful. Hodir has many

garreth — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 11:03

Careful. Hodir has two "happy buffs" that inflate numbers.  Not taking away from Watches, of course, because there aren't many locks that can hit those numbers even when totally using all the buffs on Hodir.

The two buffs are:

  • Storm Power: Random raid members get this buff. It's our job to run and stand in the melee when that happens. Also hits a lot of ranged.
  • Starlight: The beams we stand in for increased haste.
Scaron's picture

Absolutely, I agree.

Scaron — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 11:19

Absolutely, I agree. Nonetheless, I think the rotation Watches used here can be quite informative and instructive even given the happy buffs.

That's the hard thing about Ulduar. There's so many happy buffs in several boss fights (General, Hodir, Yogg especially) and so much movement required that it makes one standard rotation / priority list difficult to pin down. 

I think the light of hope here is that a GREAT rotation might be only a few spells (and a lot of practice) away.

Perhaps, though, it also wouldn't hurt to take a look at the Thorim kill damage on just Thorim, or the Kologarn kill. Then, we've still got the movement issues, but less happy buffs and probably a more "standard" rotation.

The problem you (rightly) point out, G, is that it may be that there's no one parse / log file that one can look to to figure out what one should do on any given fight. There's just no real generalizability.

saedo's picture

And

saedo — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 11:18

And http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=65280 if you're taking advantage of it.

The numbers don't matter much since they're inflated.   But the relative standing still does.   There's a 4K dps difference between them.  

moriella's picture

a couple tips for warlocks

moriella — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 13:30

In the last two weeks I saw a guild warlock post that he was using the addon 'necrosis' to manage his dots.

I remember necrosis from my horde lock but was never impressed with it.  I recently installed it on my noob leveling lock and had a look.  If you are raiding with this, you fail!  It cannot properly manage and display timers for all your targets.  Its entire interface is built around and to support 'clicking'  In short, necrosis is not a tool I could ever condone.  Bind your keys and set up DoTimer pls k thanx.

Also, you warlocks may want to take a look at these mods

wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/lifetapper.aspx  if you are gyplhed into lifetap and/or have your 4 piece t7.

wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/spellpriority.aspx if you are raiding deep destro. (note, I've not tested but looks promising)

CoE is undefendable if there is a moonkin in raid, period.  CoD is 250dps.  Cast CoD every CD.

Disclaimer : there was ONE time in t7 content where a lock should put up CoE over the moonkin.  Brownie points if you can tell me when.

Scaron's picture

I like SpellPriority...a

Scaron — Thu, 06/11/2009 - 08:06

I like SpellPriority...a lot. 

It's not only for deep destro, it also allows you to do affliction.

Whether it'll be as good in raid as it is as a practice tool is yet to be seen, but it's great for knowing what to cast in a full-on boss encounter. Also, as a practice tool it can really help you to get familiar with knowing what to cast in different situations.

For destro, take care, spell priority does NOT take into account that CoD should NOT be cast if the target has less than a minute of life left in it. This means that it can tell you to cast the wrong thing on trash, or if the boss is w/i a minute of dying. I've not yet found a way to customize this.

For affliction, it doesn't tell you when you should be switching to drain soul when the target is less than 25% health. You'll need to adjust and cast DS when it tells you to do SB under 25%.

All that said, for figuring out a DPS-maximizing cast order on a dummy, this addon is quite good.

Vitriola's picture

nice add-ons!

Vitriola — Thu, 06/11/2009 - 07:36

Hey Mori, those look like very helpful add ons.  I am going to try them tonight.  thanks for posting this!

saedo's picture

Supremus?

saedo — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 17:17

Supremus?

Shihli's picture

T7, Saedo. It was Malygos,

Shihli — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 17:37

T7, Saedo.

It was Malygos, end of Phase 2.

moriella's picture

ding ding!!!

moriella — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 17:50

correct! 

Pity no guild warlocks answered this :(

Scaron's picture

 I assumed this wasn't what

Scaron — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 17:58

 I assumed this wasn't what you were talking about as this no longer works.

saedo's picture

Oh right that sacrifice.

saedo — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 17:39

Oh right that sacrifice.

Vitriola's picture

singed

Vitriola — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 13:24

Ok.  I do not know this spell.  What is it, beyond that popup that the link provides?  It is not in my spell list.

garreth's picture

It is a debuff that the mage

garreth — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 13:28

It is a debuff that the mage NPC in the Hodir fight puts up on the boss. Hence why breaking out the NPC's is PRIORITY. It's not something YOU cast, it's something that's part of the fight mechanic.

Shihli's picture

It's a buff that the PLAYERS

Shihli — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 14:52

It's a buff that the PLAYERS put on Hodir by standing next to the campfires that the MAGES create.

Doesn't change the fact that you have to break 'em out, but still, splitting hairs.

Jayel's picture

npc mage

Jayel — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 13:28

I believe this is put on Hodir by one of the NPC mages.

Dragon's picture

The fire that the mage NPCs

Dragon — Wed, 06/10/2009 - 13:28

The fire that the mage NPCs provide during the course of the fight.

It increases the time for biting cold to stack and gives all your attacks a "Singed" buff.

Check out the Ignis boss strat in our handbook for more details.

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