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Cataclysm Rogue Preview

saedo's picture

saedo — Thu, 04/22/2010 - 16:59

So my turn at making a post on Rogues.

In World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, we'll be making several changes to class talents and abilities across the board. Here, you'll get a glimpse at what's in store for the rogue class, including a look the new high-level abilities and an overview of how the new Mastery system will work with the rogue's different talent specs.

New Rogue Abilities

Redirect (available at level 81) : Rogues will be getting a new ability to help them deal with changing targets. Redirect will transfer any active combo points to the rogue's current target, helping to ensure combo points aren't wasted when swapping targets or when targets die. In addition, self-buff abilities like Slice and Dice will no longer require a target, so rogues can spend extra combo points on those types of abilities (more on this below). Redirect will have a 1-minute cooldown and no other costs.

This is all right I guess.   It does address a bit on our losing our "rage/runes/mana" (sorta) when changing target to target.   With a 1 minute CD, it's a little bit of extra burst, little less ramp up time for adds.   But it's not that huge, a slightly better quality of life thing.

Combat Readiness (level 83) : Combat Readiness is a new ability that we intend rogues to trigger defensively. While this ability is active, whenever the rogue is struck by a melee or ranged attack, he or she will gain a stacking buff called Combat Insight that results in a 10% reduction in damage taken. Combat Insight will stack up to 5 times and the timer will be refreshed whenever a new stack is applied. Our goal is to make rogues better equipped to go toe-to-toe with other melee classes when Evasion or stuns are not in play. This ability lasts 6 seconds and has a 2-minute cooldown.

This would mostly be a pvp move.  It can seem a bit OP at most, but when players adapt to seeing this they can work around it.   All it takes is for you to stop attacking the rogue for 6 seconds, and the stacks will fall off.  So like most things, bad players will be screwed, good players that are attentive and have the tools will negate this.    For PvE, maybe during fights with constant raid damage or so it'd help the healers out a bit.   But rogues are dps heroes, we don't care, dps dps dps til we kill ourselves right?

Smoke Bomb (level 85) : The rogue drops a Smoke Bomb, creating a cloud that interferes with enemy targeting. Enemies who are outside the cloud will find themselves unable to target units inside the cloud with single-target abilities. Enemies can move inside the cloud to attack, or they can use area-of-effect (AoE) abilities at any time to attack opponents in a cloud. In PvP, this will open up new dimensions of tactical positional gameplay, as the ability offers a variety of offensive and defensive uses. In PvE, Smoke Cloud can serve to shield your group from hostile ranged attacks, while also drawing enemies closer without the need to rely on conventional line-of-sight obstructions. Smoke Cloud lasts 10 seconds and has a 3-minute cooldown.

This potentially has some major implications.   But when it comes right down to it, if rogues find a way to use it to negate any major boss mechanics, Blizz will simply fix it to not work on it anymore.   But in the meantime, maybe use it to LoS trash for the tanks.   Maybe use it to save the healers/ranged from being targetting by some ability.  Maybe.     PvP will probably be more fun, create your own LoS pilller kind of thing.

 

Changes to Abilities and Mechanics

We're also planning to make changes to some of the other abilities and mechanics you're already familiar with. This list and the summary of talent changes below it are by no means comprehensive, but they should give you a good sense of what we want for each spec.


  • In PvP, we want to reduce the rogue's dependency on binary cooldowns and "stun-locks," and give them more passive survivability in return. One major change is that we'll put Cheap Shot on the same diminishing return as other stuns. The increase to Armor and Stamina on cloth, leather, and mail gear will help with this goal as well.    So, rogues are less squishy

  • In PvE, even accounting for active modifiers like Slice and Dice and Envenom, a very large portion of the rogue's damage is attributable to passive sources of damage. Yes, they are using abilities for the entire duration of a fight, but we want to reduce the percentage of rogue damage that comes from auto-attacks and poisons. More of their damage will be coming from active abilities and special attacks.   Nothing really new here, they've always said they wanted more yellow damage out of us.  Will likely somehow boost our finisher damage more (while balancing the others) to tip the scale more towards yellows.  

  • We would like to improve the rogue leveling experience. Positional attacks and DoT-ramping mechanics will be de-emphasized at low levels and then re-introduced at higher levels for group gameplay. We are also providing rogues with a new low-level ability, Recuperate, to convert combo points into a small heal-over-time (HoT).    More non-dps abiltiies...   Well, I'd guess this is like our very own Gift of the Naaru, but self only.   So a bit of a heal if we really need be.  Less downtime while levelling/soloing.

  • To complement the change to combo points, non-damage abilities such as Recuperate and Slice and Dice will no longer have target requirements and can be used with any of the rogue's existing combo points, including combo points remaining on recently killed targets. This will not affect damage abilities, which will still require combo points to be present on the specific target you want to damage. To coincide with this, the UI will be updated so that rogues know how many combo points they have active.   This is kinda like back in Vanilla and early BC, where combo points remained on a dead target for a few seconds and rogues were able to refresh SnD inbetween adds.   Well with this, this de-emphasizes what Redirect would do for us, but I guess more is better.

  • Ambush will now work with all weapons, but will have a reduced coefficient when not using a dagger. When opening from Stealth, all rogues will be able to choose from burst damage, DoT abilities, or a stun.  This sounds nice, gotta see the final numbers to see if it's worth it.   Cause atm, I don't even bother with steath as Combat.  As mutilate, I just mutilate from stealth to get the combo points to ramp up faster.   So, these better hit damn hard if they want us using them, pve that is.

  • As we've done recently with some of the Subtlety abilities, we want to make sure more rogue abilities aren't overly penalized by weapon choice. With a few exceptions (like Backstab), you should be able to use a dagger, axe, mace, sword, or fist weapon without being penalized for most attacks.     Sub will likely be a fairly huge revamp if Blizz wants to keep their goal of 3 viable specs, we'll have to see.

  • Deadly Throw and Fan of Knives will now use the weapon in the ranged slot. In addition, we hope to allow rogues to apply poisons to their throwing weapons.   This is likely a nerf no matter how GC tells us that the numbers aren't final and that it's not a nerf.   The thing is, this means FoK can only proc 1 poison, instead of 2.   Utility wise, damage wise, it was OP cause it can proc 2 poisons.   But there's a de-emphasize on aoe spamming and more CC in Cata, so, whateva, we all get hit with a nerf no matter how much we don't like it.

  • We are very happy with Tricks of the Trade as a general mechanic and as a way to give rogues more group utility, but we don't want it to account for as much threat transfer as it does now.  QQ this means it'll be harder to assassinate someone in the raid.   Oh well.

New Talents and Talent Changes

In Cataclysm, the overall feel of each of the rogue's talent trees will change, as we would like each tree to have a clearly defined niche and purpose. The talent details below are meant to give you an idea of what we're going for.

  • Assassination will be more about daggers, poisons, and burst damage.

  • Combat will be all about swords, maces, fist weapons, axes, and being engaged toe-to-toe with your enemies. A Combat rogue will be able to survive longer without needing to rely on Stealth and evasion mechanics.

  • The Subtlety tree will primarily be based around utilizing Stealth, openers, finishers, and survivability. It'll be about daggers, too, but less so than Assassination.

  • In general, Subtlety rogues needs to do more damage than they do today, and the other trees need to have more tools.

  • Weapon-specialization talents (for all classes, not just rogues) are going away. We do not want you to have to respec when you get a different weapon. Interesting talents, such as Hack and Slash, will work with all weapons. Boring talents, such as Mace Specialization and Close Quarters Combat, will be going away.  This I'll like, only cause I finally (probably) don't have to respec every time I pick up a different weapon.  

  • The Assassination and Combat talent trees currently have a lot of passive bonuses. We plan to dial back the amount of Critical Strike Rating provided by these trees so that rogues still want it on their gear.

Mastery Passive Talent Tree Bonuses

Assassination
Melee damage
Melee critical damage
Poison damage

Nothing really unexpected here.   Mutilates are the poison high crit rogue, so, go them.


Combat
Melee damage
Melee Haste
Harder-hitting combo-point generators

Haste, in all likelihood, this does refer to the new haste, which means we get energy regen out of it.  So, if that's the cast, this likely replaces Vitality and Lightning Reflexes out of our tree.     Guess the 3rd mastery just boosts how hard Sinister Strike hits, so more yellow damage a go.


Subtlety
Melee damage
Armor Penetration
Harder-hitting finishers

Armor penetration for this tree is weird.   In fact, this mastery was originally the Combat's, and Combat's here.   Well it was called More Energy Regen or something like that.   But the way these 3 are lined up, my theory is that the masteries are making Assassion uses Envenom (duh), Combat uses Rupture, while Subtlety uses Evis.   The ArP would certainly be a Evis booster.  

The initial tier of rogue Mastery bonuses will be very similar between the trees. However, the deeper that a player goes into any tree, the more specialized and beneficial the Masteries will be to the play style for that spec. Assassination will have better poisons than the other two specs. Combat will have very steady and consistent overall damage. Subtlety will have strong finishers.

We hope you enjoyed this preview, and we're looking forward to hearing your initial thoughts and feedback on these additions and changes. Please keep in mind that this information represents a work in progress and is subject to change as development on Cataclysm continues.

 


Well this concludes my analysis.   All in all, there's nothing ground breakingly major for the rogues.   We get a few utility tricks.   A few conveniences for target switching.    And that's about it.

Have to wait fo the Talent Tree previews to make a real judgement call for the rogues.   That's where the meat and potatoes are!      See ya then!   Or if you wanna discuss something below, go ahead.

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saedo's picture

Well 31 point talent trees

saedo — Wed, 07/14/2010 - 10:06

Well 31 point talent trees are going out though, it's not finalized yet (assassination apparently will be more worked on)

 

Assassination

  • Quickening - All healing effects on you are increased by 10/20% and your movement speed is increased by 8/15%. This does not stack with other movement speed increasing effects.(Talent, )
  • Assassin's Resolve - While wielding daggers, your maximum Energy is increased by 20 and your melee damage is increased by 15%.(Instant cast, )
  • Deadly Momentum - Now also grants the critical strike chance of your next attack is increased by 20/40%.


Combat

  • Revealing Strike - An instant strike that causes 100% of your normal weapon damage and increases the effectiveness of your next offensive finishing move on that target by 20% for 15 sec. Awards 1 combo point.(40 Energy, 15 sec duration, 5 yd range, Reveals a weakness, increasing the effectiveness of the rogue's next finishing move by 20%., Talent, )
  • Restless Blades - Your damaging finishing moves reduce the cooldown of your Adrenaline Rush, Killing Spree, and Sprint abilities by 1/1.5/2 sec? per combo point.(Talent, )
  • Improved Recuperate - Causes your Recuperate ability to restore an additional 1/2% of your maximum health and reduces all damage taken by 3/6% while your Recuperate ability is active.(Talent, )
  • Combat Readiness - Enter into a state of heightened awareness, deflecting enemy weapon strikes with increasing effectiveness. Successive attacks will deal 10% less damage per application, stacking 5 times. Lasts for 30 sec. but if 6 sec elapse without any incoming weapon strikes, this state will end.(Instant cast, 2 min cooldown, Being struck by enemy melee and ranged weapons grants increasing Combat Insight, reducing damage taken., )
  • Blade Flurry - While active, the rogue's attacks strike an additional nearby opponent, but energy regeneration is reduced by 20%. Lasts 15 sec.(15 sec duration, Instant cast, 30 sec cooldown, Your attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Energy regeneration reduced by 20%., )
  • Bandit's Guile - Your Sinister Strike and Revealing Strike abilities have a 33/67/100% chance to grant you an evolving insight into an opponent's defenses, increasing damage to that target by up to 15%. Opponents can adapt over time, negating this benefit, and Striking a different opponent will begin the cycle anew.(Talent, )
  • Adrenaline Rush - Increases your Energy regeneration rate by 100% and your melee attack speed by 20% for 15 sec.(15 sec duration, 3 min cooldown, Energy regeneration increased by 100%.
    Melee attack speed increased by 20%., Talent, )

 

And it appears these are the freebie talents if you spec into that tree as the primary spec:

Combat

  • Dual Wield Specialization (+offhand damage)
  • Blade Flurry
  • Vitality (+energy regen)

Assassination

  • Mutilate
  • Improved Poisons
  • Assassin's Resolve

Subtlety

  • Sinister Calling
  • Master of Sublety
  • Shadowstep

 

Trees can be found here:  http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f

Katzeus's picture

Looks like no more Hunger for

Katzeus — Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:10

Looks like no more Hunger for Blood...bah, that ability has really been through the wringer

saedo's picture

HfB now replaced

saedo — Thu, 05/27/2010 - 17:03

HfB now replaced with:

 

Vendetta

30 yd range

Instant

Marks an enemy for death, increasing all damage you deal to the target
by 20% [NYI - special abilities only for now] and granting you unerring
vision of your target, regardless of concealments such as stealth and
invisibility. Lasts 30 sec.

2 min cooldown

 

So, you get a CD to use.    It averages out to 5% passive damage still, but, you can now decide to use it at certain times to get a better burst as a CD.

Dufe's picture

Granted, I'm not a big PvPer,

Dufe — Thu, 05/27/2010 - 17:29

Granted, I'm not a big PvPer, but 30 sec seems like an eternity to kill stealth/invis in PvP.

saedo's picture

Well HfB was orignally

saedo — Thu, 05/27/2010 - 17:56

Well HfB was orignally designed to be unattractive to pvp'ers, maybe they'll still mess with the trees to make this unreachable for them somehow.

Dufe's picture

After further thought,

Dufe — Fri, 05/28/2010 - 19:11

After further thought, Hunter's Mark lasts how long?  Maybe this really isn't so bad.

Derchlon's picture

Also consider that Hunter's

Derchlon — Sat, 05/29/2010 - 01:08

Also consider that Hunter's mark can be negated with a simple vanish.

Skilled use of Flare is what really makes hunters effective against rogues.

Dufe's picture

Yes, but that doesn't help

Dufe — Sat, 05/29/2010 - 01:38

Yes, but that doesn't help prowl, shadowmeld, or invis.

saedo's picture

It lasts 5 min.   100 yard

saedo — Fri, 05/28/2010 - 22:40

It lasts 5 min.   100 yard range.

saedo's picture

It was expected.   They

saedo — Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:01

It was expected.   They mentioned long ago they didn't like it but it was the only thing they could do then to boost mutilate without making pvp'ers like the ability.

saedo's picture

New Alpha Build more rogue

saedo — Fri, 05/21/2010 - 21:41

New Alpha Build more rogue talent tweaks:

v12065

Assassination


* Remorseless Attacks now affects all of your abilities.     Huh, so maybe, more attactive to put fillers down here to bump up trash/add dps
* Vile Poisons now also gives your Fan of Knives ability a chance to apply the poisons on your melee weapons   equal to 33/66/100% of the chance that they would normally apply from your melee weapons. It no longer gives your poisons additional resistance to dispel effects.   This could be a boost needed to compensate that you can't dual poison FoK anymore
* Cold Blood now also generates 25 energy and has a 2 min cooldown, down from 3 min.   
* Turn the Tables now also affects opening moves.
* Murderous Intent moved up one row.

Subtlety

* Ghostly Strike removed.
* Initiative moved up one row.
* Honor Among Thieves now only affects physical critical strike chance, only activates on a physical ability critical hit in the raid, and can only grant a combo point every 4 sec, down from 2.   Looking more and more like Leader of the Pack

http://war-tools.com/t68650.html been updated too to reflect these.

saedo's picture

Well playing around with the

saedo — Fri, 05/21/2010 - 21:48

Well playing around with the trees I got this:  http://war-tools.com/t68650.html?b=90253203053521c5001030311531052152002...

It looks like Remoreless Attacks is more of a viable filler in the sense that with Punturing Wounds moving up a tier, needed 2 more points to fill somewhere before reaching the 3rd tier.   Guess that wins, over Imp Evis.    Since already 2 points in, got Deadly Momentum as the next set of filler.   Dang, no getting Deadly Brew or Imp Expose Armor now, well unless you give up Deadly Momementum and or Fleet Footed.    Your choice!

saedo's picture

There's been some revamps in

saedo — Thu, 05/20/2010 - 11:25

There's been some revamps in the rogue trees on Alpha, here's the summary and some talent tree, though it's not complete:  http://war-tools.com/t68650.html

Assassination Tree :

  • Blackjack : Even after your sap wears off, it's effects linger on enemies, reducing their damage done by 25/50% for 5sec. (2 points, 2nd row)    Obviously pvp talent, sounds like they might like it
  • Deadly Momentum : After killing an opp. that yields experience or honor, gives you a 50/100% chance to refresh slice and dice or recuperate abilities to their original durations. (2 points, 2nd row, linked to remorseless attacks)    Interesting, guess it's a free refresh, probably good for solo'ing, pvp, maybe fights with adds
  • Blood Spatter : Removed from Assassination tree, moved to Subtlety.
  • Improved Expose Armor : Gives a 33/66/100% chance to refund all combo points when performing your expose armor ability. (3 points, 7th row, where murder was before. Original expose armor talent removed)    This would make expose armor cheaper (in combo point sense) so rogues more willing to use it for the sake of raid utility
  • Murderous Intent : When you backstab an enemy that is at or below 35% health, you instantly recover 10/20/30 energy. (3 points, 9th row)    Execute range talent!  
  • Murder : Talent removed
  • Find Weakness : Talent removed
  • Venomous Wounds : Each time your rupture or garrote deals damage to an enemy that you've poisoned, you have a 15/30/45 chance to deal 1023 additional domage. (3 points, second to last row)    Huh, so looks like they might want all rogues to use rupture again, esp if you look at what they did to sub tree


Combat Tree : Remains unchanged.


Subtlety Tree :

  • Improved Ambush : Talent remains the same but has been moved to row 1.
  • Camouflage : Talent remains the same but has been moved to row 1.
  • Opportunity : Moved to row 2. There is now a 3rd rank, boosting the bonus to 10/20/30%. Affects the same skills.
  • Hemorrhage : An instant strike that deals 110% weapon damage (160% if a dagger is equipped) and causes the target to take 30% additional damage from bleed effects for 15 sec. (now in row 3, with no pre-req)
  • Dagger Specialisation : Same as live, only now it's in subtlety tree. 1/2/3/4/5% chance to get a crit with daggers. (row 4, pre-req is opportunity)
  • Energetic Recovery : Empowers your recuperate ability, causing its periodic effect to also restore 1 energy. (4th row, currently not working and talent points do not boost it)
  • Blood Spatter : Now in subtlety tree. Increases damage caused by your garrote and rupture by 15/30%. (row 7)
  • Enveloping Shadows : Same as before but new part added : Now also increases the duration of your feint ability by 1/2/3 seconds.
  • Honor Among Thieves : Increases the critical hit chance of all party/raid members by 1/2/3/4/5%. When any player in your party or raid crits you have a 100% chance to gain a combo point. Cannot occur more than once every 2 seconds.
  • Sanguinary Vein : Increases your damage dealt to targets with a bleed effect on them by 2/4/6%. (3 points, 9th row. Linked to blood spatter).
  • Serrated Blades : Reworked. Your eviscerate has a 4/8/12% chance per combo point to refresh your rupture on the target to its original duration. (3 points, second from the bottom)

 

Probably more changes in coming.   Overall looks like they want all rogues to use rupture with those new talents in Assass and (moved) talents in Sub.

Assass looks like it potentially has 5-6 filler points for utility as you go down that tree.   Though too bad the guy didn't fill out the combat tree to see how it all interacts.

saedo's picture

Ok with the update to that

saedo — Thu, 05/20/2010 - 16:44

Ok with the update to that guy's talent trees, combat is filled in and I can play around with builds more:  http://war-tools.com/t68650.html

Combat:

http://war-tools.com/t68650.html?b=93052e534r55c52052131022310050120531zg

  • Probably the typical standard (fill your own fillers in).   Goes the same build as it is now, but add in the new Restless Blades talent, and due to more points with level cap get to add a couple more into Vile Poisons too.
  • Also, with Blood Splatter gone, probably just fill up Imp Evis instead.  
  • Would've wanted Deadly Momentum to replace it, but since it requires Remorseless Attacks too, that's 4 points to dump into, probably not worth it

http://war-tools.com/t68650.html?b=92053e1t55c52052131022310050120531530...

  • With Hemo being moved lower, I wonder if this is any viable.
  • Maybe for more utility if groups don't have a mangle
  • Otherwise, doubt it would be better.   Hemo is more energy efficient than SS, but have to give up the poison talents and most of lethality

http://war-tools.com/t68650.html?b=9zd55c5205213102231005012053153221320...

  • This is a very outside shot I'm think of, ditching all of Assassination talents just to get Dirty Deeds.
  • Well, this could be that speciallized build that was good for that one fight, I forget what it was...   I'm thinking of a fight where they stacked hemo rogues to take advantage of Dirty Deeds.   Forgot which that was.

Mutilate:

http://war-tools.com/t68650.html?b=9c53003053521005321033100531052152002...

  • This is the theoretical Blade Flurry build.   7 filler points in Assass, I picked Fleet Footed, Imp Expose Armor, and Deadly Brew.   These do seem the most powerful, and with Imp Expose Armor, I wonder if that tips the scale to make Mutilate rogues the best source of "sunder".  (HA!   Watch fail rogues skip this filler talent so they can bitch that they can't sunder)
  • Note I didn't pick up the new talent Excecute of Murderous Intent, that's cause...   It says "when you Backstab an enemy".     So I'm unsure how good this will be.    You have to switch to a crappier attack to get its benefit.    Unless, they just haven't hooked mutilate into it.

http://war-tools.com/t68650.html?b=9c53003053521005321033103531050050050...

  • This is with Murderous Intent should it prove to be good.   
  • Likely means pick up Aggression while in the Combat tree to boost Backstab
  • Not enough points to reach Blade Flurry of course

Subtlety:

  • http://war-tools.com/t68650.html?b=93052e1u5z502203201035c12050112505123531
  • http://war-tools.com/t68650.html?b=9ze52152d01q502203201035c120501125051...

I dunno, I'm just guessing with one of these 2.   Both go down picking up all the Sub dps goodies.  The first one spends the rest in Assassinaion (except for Dual Wield).   The 2nd spends the rest all in Combat, but only really gaining 5% hit, and 1 point in LR so 4% haste.    Versus, 5% crit, 20% more evis dmg, 2/3 ruth, 1/5 leth.

Sub atm definitely has the most top loaded dps talents, maybe.  There's 20 points to pump into the last 3 tiers, vs Assass's 13 (though 6 more potential dps points if they prove to not suck), and Combat's 12 (only 12, rest are utility).   Perhaps testing will prove some of the top talents in there will suck and can be dumped for more Combat / Assass lower end talents.

Katzeus's picture

Nice update. I'm trying to

Katzeus — Thu, 05/20/2010 - 11:59

Nice update.

I'm trying to figure out the viability of sub with these changes.  The tree has been kicked to the curb this whole x-pac, now it looks like they're trying to make it PvE strong, but it's dirtied with all these random PvPish talents. They either have a big picture plan with subtlety or they're just throwing stuff at it till something starts working, I'm thinking it's the later.

Ideally I'd like to see things go in a direction of more situational raid builds, like a trash spec, a boss with adds spec, single target, etc, etc.  They're obviously working to give rogues more options, which has been a long time coming.

Here's hoping we see a shadowstep raid build...

saedo's picture

The way things are, it seems

saedo — Thu, 05/20/2010 - 12:30

The way things are, it seems the sub rogue will be pushed more like Feral.   They both now have Mangle, and I assume the 5% crit from Honor Among Thieves is a Leader of the Pack alternative, and Sub has the most bleed (rupture) based talents, and the mastery will be Armor Pen, another Feral beloved stat.

saedo's picture

Cata Talents

saedo — Thu, 05/06/2010 - 02:12

So MMO has some alpha leaks and here's some potentially more interesting talks with the rogue class.   Their talent calc is here:  http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue#,,11927

Combat:

Well starting with this cause I'm more focused in this atm.  The build if one were to copy today's build with a few more points to throw around would be this:  http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue#ebAL5gofAqzBzyD,,11927

For the most part, there's less change than I thought there'd be.   Well
this is Alpha version so probably will change more.   But still, was
expecting more (or less).   By less I mean less talents as they'd be
moved to masteries, such as Lightning Reflexes and Combat Potentcy.

But, some of the talents are streamlined in that they take less to max out.   So I do wound up with 7 filler points instead of the current....  1.

An interesting new talent in the tree would be Restless Blades.    Reduces a CDs of BF and KS by 1.5 sec (when maxed) per combo point each time you use a finisher.   Yo ho ho, more CDs for Combats to pop per fight.     Though this potentially means I might not be able to plan ahead to time BF with Heroism, but more BF would be drool worthy (and KS).

 

Assassination

I see no real changes worth mentioning in the tree itself.   What's gonna be changing looks like how to spend points in the other trees.

I'm seeing the possbility of 2 specs, no idea yet which is better but...

  1. http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue#3KBDw5cqr145-D,,11927
  2. http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue#3W7yKB5eO8Nl7Q,,11927

Or something similar.

But the main point is this...

Spec 1 allows you to get Blade Flurry.   Woot woot a good CD mutilate can reach?

Spec 2 basically goes down to max out Opportunity / Relentless Strikes.   Which are big dps talents that Mutilate has sacrificed more recently for even bigger dps talents.   And even then, that spec is fairly close to the current LR spec, maybe just a bit behind.

My feeling right now, Blade Flurry will win.   Extra CD for utility is probably better and the diff probably isn't huge to Spec 2 since there's still points leftover to put some into Opp/RS.    So, a real CD for Mutilates to use, Combats just get to use it more often (among others).

 

Subtlety

No fuckin clue!   Ha ha!    Well a brief skim of it doesn't show much diff in there.   Maybe I missed something since it's late in the night.    But I haven't kept touch with how to play this spec anyways.

 

That's all for this edition.   All speculation of course are probably wrong since there'll be (hopefully) more changes incoming.

Katzeus's picture

Mutilate blade flurry is so

Katzeus — Fri, 05/07/2010 - 01:45

Mutilate blade flurry is so drool worthy.  It's too bad you have to pick up so much fluff to get to it.  Recuperate, parry, even slice and dice are just empty talent points.

saedo's picture

Technically, most of those

saedo — Fri, 05/07/2010 - 02:27

Technically, most of those fluff was picked up to get Lightning Reflexes.   Only needed to fill up SnD to have enough points for BF.

But guess that's the point, Blizz said they want us to have more flexibility in utility talents, more filler points to play around with.   Looks like it's all in the Combat tree atm though.   Going down Assassination, nothing changed really.     But...    This is only the first alpha build...

Katzeus's picture

You're right, as things stand

Katzeus — Fri, 05/07/2010 - 13:01

You're right, as things stand now chances are we'll be climbing up the combat tree for lightning reflexes either way.  I guess the flexibility will be nice.  For so long every rogue has had the exact same builds.  It'll probably still be close to that way, but we'll have more filler to choose from.  

Unfortunately cool skillz don't equal top dps or I'd have been rolling blade flurry/shadowstep all this x-pac.  Having blade flurry will change the mechanics of mutilate quite a bit considering how crits generate combo points, it'll be like a CP adrenaline rush.  Maybe I can do something on trash other then spam FoK.

Since they haven't really touched Mut or Sub I guess it's anyone's guess till we see how it develops.

Though my favorite build in the Alpha thus far is still rogue tanking...

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue#fmghjXl0fditfO9,9eJ-Oq,11927

I was one of those rogues who tanked heroics before they nerfed dodge from agi.  With enough avoidance and flawless cooldown management this could actually be viable.

saedo's picture

Mmmm, I remember rogue

saedo — Fri, 05/07/2010 - 13:18

Mmmm, I remember rogue tanking in BC, my blog on it:  /node/2381

They never did let me try Mother Shahraz or Illidan...

And technically I never did successfully tank anything from start to finish, stuff happened, lost some external avoidance, but...

  1. Void Reaver to 98%
  2. Maulgar til first fear
  3. Gruul for 6:40
  4. Magtheridon for 5:12
Agoney's picture

I tanked our first twin emp

Agoney — Fri, 05/07/2010 - 23:52

I tanked our first twin emp kill for the last 5-6% in Vanilla.. it was pretty epic i must say /epeen

Katzeus's picture

LOL that reminds me of the

Katzeus — Sat, 05/08/2010 - 10:36


LOL that reminds me of the first time I tanked.  It was actually the first BC raid I ever did.  The entire raid wiped on Moroes and I popped all my cooldowns and evasion tanked him down from 5%.  The raid was so grateful that they gave me the pocketwatch (which the tank regretted for the next few months when it didn't drop again).  That was the first epic I ever got as well. 

Katzeus's picture

Oh hot, my moment of glory

Katzeus — Fri, 05/07/2010 - 15:51

Oh hot, my moment of glory was tanking Gruul for probably as long as you did.  I, like you, never actually got to tank any raid bosses to completion, but damn was building that set fun.  My friend has a video of Gruul, I should try to dig it up.

I really like the idea of the

Zevix — Tue, 04/27/2010 - 00:44

I really like the idea of the smoke bomb ability, has some nice options to it as far as groups go and gives us something else we can do other then just ToT. I also like the keeping of combo points when switching from target to target with min cool down....not like huge or game breaking....but still kind of nice.

They seem to be going a lot to keeping us alive, do we die a lot now o.0? Well I mean of corse i do ^ ^ but what about others rogues. I guess these changes are mainly for PvP but meh...w/e still not a bad thing.

As far the spec changes I'm guessing that Mutilate and combat are still going to be the main raiding specs. The changes they are making to sub seem nice but will it make this spec raidable?

All in all I think most of the changes are pretty nice nothing ground breaking but some interesting new tools for PvE and PvP I'm really looking forward to Cat the more and more I hear about it :P. Will see how much really makes it in to the expasion and what gets nerfed.

Thanks for the awesome preview post nicely done sir!

Derchlon's picture

Smoke bomb --> Just like

Derchlon — Tue, 04/27/2010 - 12:53

Smoke bomb --> Just like Camouflage, only at a fixed location and can't be canceled by damage.

 

hmm.

saedo's picture

And it's 10 sec duration vs

saedo — Tue, 04/27/2010 - 15:50

And it's 10 sec duration vs "until broken"

Derchlon's picture

You have a point, that would

Derchlon — Fri, 05/07/2010 - 10:19

You have a point, that would make them appear balanced.

Of course, this is all just speculation.  We can't know the true mechanics of it, until it's leaked.

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