Rogue 4.0.1 Cheat Sheet
saedo — Tue, 10/12/2010 - 18:07
Ok I'm bored so I'll just type this up for people to read, and to remind myself too on what I need to do when online.
Most info is found here: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t105659-4_0_1_rogue_faq/
I may have added a few things myself.
Specs (there are flexible fillers in there):
Assassination - http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#fcIfzsMdoGo0bZ0h:qV Last glyph is Vendetta or Backstab, I dunno. Cycle is basically Envenom to keep SnD up, keep rupture up, mutilate 4+, backstab < 35%.
Combat - http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0bZfGccocbRGo0h:o0Vz Cycle is basically keep SnD up. Use Revealing Strike at 3-4 combo points before a Rupture/Eviscerate (does not affect SnD waste to use otherwise). Watch Bandit's Guile to maximize CDs/Ruptures/etc.
Reports are, DPS sucks, well rogues have to get used to new mechanics too, but it doesn't look good, needs buffs!
Subtlety - http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0hZ0bZcGcsdu0RGo:mza Keep SnD up, keep Hemo debuff up, keep Rupture up via Evis, keep Recuperate up, otherwise Backstab/Evis.
Reports are, HAT is broken, resetting your combo points when other people crit, so likely not viable til fixed.
Stat Weights (AP = 1):
Assassination
- Spell Hit 3.1
- Agility 2.8
- Expertise 2.6
- Haste 2.2
- Mastery 1.9
- White Hit 1.7
- Crit 1.4
Combat
- Agility 2.88
- Spell Hit 2.38
- Haste 2.25
- Expertise 2.2
- White Hit 1.69
- Crit 1.62
- Mastery 0.6
Subtlety
- Agility 3.67
- Expertise 2.15
- Spell Hit 1.9
- Haste 1.84
- Crit 1.67
- White Hit 1.14
- Mastery 1.01
Trinkets:
Assassination
- Heroic Sharpened Twilight Scale 810
- Heroic Death's Verdict 760
- Heroic Deathbringer's Will 760
- Sharpened Twilight Scale 710
- Death's Verdict 680
- Harkuml War Token 680
- Heroic Whispering Fang Skull 670
- Deathbringer's Will 670
- Comet's Trail ~640?
- Heroic Abomination in a Jar 600
- Whispering Fang Skull ~595?
Combat
- Heroic Sharpened Twilight Scale 830
- Heroic Deathbringer's Will 790
- Heroic Death's Verdict 780
- Sharpened Twilight Scale 740
- Deathbringer's Will 700
- Death's Verdict 690
- Harkuml War Token 690
- Heroic Whispering Fang Skull 690
- Comet's Trail ~650?
- Whispering Fang Skull ~625?
Subtlety
- Heroic Death's Verdict
- Death's Verdict
- Heroic Sharpened Twilight Scale
- Heroic Deathbringer's Will
- Sharpened Twilight Scale
- Deathbringer's Will
- Heroic Whispering Fang Skull
- Herkuml War Token
- Whipsering Fang Skull
Enchants
- Weapons: Berserking -> Mongoose
- Gloves: 44AP -> 20 agi
- Boots: 12hit/12crit -> 16 agi
- Cloak: 23 haste -> 22 agi
Random Note:
For greatest flexibility in all specs priority probably should be
- Get the spell hit cap (289 / 342 / 394 / 446 rating depending on your precision)
- Get to expertise cap (172 or 149 for gnomes with daggers/swords)
- Red Slots = Agility (delicate) or Expertise (precise)
- Yellow Slots = Agilty / Haste (deft) or Expertise / Hit (accurate)
- Blue Slots = Agility / Hit (glinting) or Expertise / Hit (accurate)
- Reforge crit into haste or hit
- And of course, reforge the most worthless stat on the item into a higher stat when possible
- Note: Mastery seems good for Mutilate, so reforge for that whenever you can't do haste.
4.0.3 appears to be coming
saedo — Mon, 11/15/2010 - 12:024.0.3 appears to be coming tomorrow.
I have 2 warnings:
If you're above the cap on Justice and Honor, spend tonight or lose it all (to cap).
Check your Meta gem requirements, if it's like Beta they've changed. In particular for us, Relentless Earthsiege Diamond changes to "Require more blue gems than red gems, and at least 1 yellow".
That means, it pretty much becomes worthless to us because we'd have to sacrifice agi to gem pure hit which isn't worth it. Go change it! Probably one of the crit skyflare ones or whatever you wanna level to 85 with.
Edit: Never mind, looks like this change never made it live.
So what are we looking at?
Zevix — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 14:38So what are we looking at? Mutilate > Combat > Sub, by this I mean in order of best dps to worst.
Right now on live? Mutilate
saedo — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 16:06Right now on live? Mutilate >> Combat = Sub Maybe.
At 85, no real idea yet, but similar.
Anyone see the changes made
Zevix — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 13:07Anyone see the changes made today on Mmo-champion? Rogue buff? o.0 Niiice mastery just became even better for mutilate.
Couple more changes that may
saedo — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 16:14Couple more changes that may boost combat a bit.
GC: "The part of the equation you are probably missing is that Main Gauche can proc from specials now in addition to autoattacks."
They've said before that they want combat right up there with assassination, so prolly will be tweaking til it is.
The needing less expertise
saedo — Thu, 10/28/2010 - 10:28The needing less expertise thing has been confirmed, while we're level 80 at least:
"Due to recalibrating expertise for Cataclysm, level 80-83 creatures
(which includes bosses) dodge and parry less, so you need less
expertise, 23, to be exact. Sorry we didn't announce this. I would
classify it as an unintended consequence (though not unknown) and not a
desired change on our part.
At level 85, you will need 26 again."
So if you're still rocking 200, you're a bit over cap for the next few weeks.
I hope you realize it's on
saedo — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 13:17I hope you realize it's on Beta. Not live.
But anyways, reports are that this makes Mastery for Mutilates close to agility in value. So haste go bye bye, full mastery after agility (and spell hit cap, maybe expertise cap too).
Still sucks for Combat.
Still to be determined for Subtlety, but doubt it'd be that huge of a boost to bring it out of its hole.
yea I do, but just makes me a
Zevix — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 13:28yea I do, but just makes me a little happy to see them do something to rogues. Seems like they never do anything.
I'm actually not too pumped
Katzeus — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 13:50I'm actually not too pumped about the mastery buff. I mean it seems like a not so good solution considering how weak mastery is for combat and sub. Defeats the whole purpose of this stat simplification when you have to reforge to change specs.
I guess I'll hold out being too critical till we see how the balance is at 85. Who knows, maybe they'll buff mastery across the board...
aaaaand right after I said
Katzeus — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 17:10aaaaand right after I said this mmochamp posted up they're buffing mastery for sub and combat. GTFO OUT OF MY HEAD BLIZZARDDDD
Huh what? This is what me
saedo — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 20:57Huh what? This is what me and Bill were talking about in these posts. What did you think we were talking about?
Oh, when I looked they had
Katzeus — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 21:32Oh, when I looked they had posted the change to mutilate but not the other specs. Carry on...
Combat Mastery: Main
Katzeus — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 17:10Combat
Subtlety
Reforging is pretty cheap
saedo — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 16:04Reforging is pretty cheap anyways. Consider it the cost that we take since we don't need to take 2-3 sets of gear. Or maybe mastery is the new ArP for some specs? We'll see at 85.
i'm sure they will do
Zevix — Wed, 10/27/2010 - 14:00I'm sure they will do something to make them all better as a whole. I mean we still have a a lot of time so guess will just have to wait and see.
Report is HAT is fixed.
saedo — Thu, 10/14/2010 - 17:47Report is HAT is fixed.
Meaning that Sub working well
Zevix — Fri, 10/15/2010 - 11:20Meaning that Sub working well enough to try in a raid? I have left my offspec unspeced trying to see what is better sub(when it was going to be fixed) or combat.
Judging from the raid we had on wed. looks to me that mutilate is the best of the 3 specs "so far" before any changes that are going to make or things they fix.
Also on a side note I was reading some nerfs will be made to mage and warlocks among other classes to bring them down some. They are pretty crazy right now, not like we didn't see this coming gg. Hope this nerf will bring a little balance, I guess it's not a huge deal considering we won't be raiding for much longer.
Further report is HAT might
saedo — Fri, 10/15/2010 - 12:12Further report is HAT might still be broken, but in a good way. Getting extra CPs randomly where it shouldn't be. So kinda like back in Naxx, but translated to ICC means 25-26K dps.
So maybe use it before they fix it? lol
Sounds like a plan, so I get
Zevix — Fri, 10/15/2010 - 21:26Sounds like a plan, so I get to be a warlock or a mage if I go sub right now?! Can I link meters every 5 secs to show how cool I am?
Too late. All fixed.
saedo — Sat, 10/16/2010 - 00:21Too late. All fixed.
I to was a little meh.. about
Zevix — Thu, 10/14/2010 - 10:57I to was a little meh.. about last night as well. I found that my DpS to had dropped from what I was doing pre-patch, imo a considerable amount. I feel like if we don't pop Hero at the start so I can stack my Vendetta and a haste pot I can't keep up with the rest of the casters.
I have to say I do like not having to worry about always trying to keep hunger for blood up, as far as Rupturing now..not to bad at all. It seems like I almost always get 4 CB points from one mutilate, so I was getting mass amount of envenioms in before I had to rupture again. So the rotation is still pretty easy compared to Combat, you just really got to dump your CB points ASAP or you waste them.
One of the things I'm personally confused about at the moment is how to get the most use out of the new talent murderous Intent. You can almost spam it with the engery regen we got now, but I was try to Backstab twice then Evem, but I still felt like I was losing more damage then gaining. I also was trying to switch between backstab and mutilate and dumping my CB's in to rupture and evem.
Any thoughts on how to better damage?
At the start, do you hold off
saedo — Thu, 10/14/2010 - 13:24At the start, do you hold off rupture til you Vendetta? Damage bonus should boost Rupture I assume.
I've read that you just use Backstab as if it's Mutilate. Spam to 4+ CP envenom spam (with rupture upkeep). If really really energy capping, go all the way to 5+ finishers. Final option would be to switch backstab glyph with vendetta.
Yes, in most cases I do use
Zevix — Fri, 10/15/2010 - 11:33Yes, in most cases I do use Vendetta as one of my fist things I do at the start of a fight, just to get it up and rolling.
As for the backstab issue, thats pretty much what I'm doing now and what I have read I just feel like I'm losing damage. Energy is not a problem at all, I can almost spam them back to back with out lag time. I also don't find myself being energy capped at all. I guess that because the damage is so stupid now fights are extremely fast, which is causing me to barely get 2 Vendetta's in one fight. This being said this might be cause to the decline in damage I was seeing towards the end of the fight.
Combat Report Well did the
saedo — Thu, 10/14/2010 - 01:37Combat Report
Well did the first night of raids as combat. I don't have a log for this due to um a mod combat log snafu. But, I'll say based on various damage meters linked, I appear to be keeping up somewhat with the top dps. Like top 6, ~15K dps, though maybe some of that is cause others were screwing up their new (or old) tricks.
How it plays for the most part, it's similar to before. Use Sinister Strikes, keep SnD up, keep Rupture up, Eviscerate otherwise. Here are the new tricks though.
Revealing Strike - I find this kind of a clunky mechanic to do. It's a new attack, puts a 15 sec debuff on the target that increases the damage of your next finisher by 10%. First, it's not better than Sinister Strike so it is an extra button to push. You would only use this if you have < 5 combo points, and not performing a SnD next. So a bit of thought and planning. Only a bit, hit this button once and only once before you mindlessly spam to 5 combo points with SS and be sure you're not blowing it on an SnD. So if you spam buttons too much, you'll miss these windows of opportunity and dps goes down.
Bandit's Guile - This... Kinda lowers our target switching prowess. What it is, when you use SS, you get a buff. Gives you 5% more damage on the target (green), keep using SS and a few seconds later it goes to 10% (yellow), repeat and it goes to 15% (red). This last buff lasts 15 seconds, and then you lose it and have to ramp up again. You also lose it if you switch targets, so, yea ramp up costs. So the thing here is, try to save your CDs and Ruptures during the Red. So some more planning with your energy and CDs.
Restless Blade - What this does is everytime you Rupture/Evis, you knock off 2 sec / combo point off the CD of KS and AR. Essentially 10 sec per finisher (non-SnD). This is just something to get used to, remembering to watch your CD timers as they tick away faster than what you conditioned yourself for. So likely want to do less saving and more using to squeeze as much out of it as possible, though I suppose still try for Red whenever.
All in all, I really hope combat is buffed. Right now it's a bit frustrating to require more work / things to pay attention to, for less damage (relatively).
Anyways, I'll be playing with all specs the rest of the way. Subtlety next if fixed!
Also, I just found out that Frost DKs can do the 4% phys dmg debuff. So yes! No need for combat rogues since we don't have arms warrior! Free to play whatever spec!
Parses from last night:
Ghli — Thu, 10/14/2010 - 06:42http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zisz9h8plam9mgjn/
Thanks!
saedo — Thu, 10/14/2010 - 09:17Thanks!
I was wondering after looking
Zevix — Wed, 10/13/2010 - 13:31I was wondering after looking over your list of tinkets, where would Comet's Trail be at in the rankings? I feel like it might be better then my Abom in a jar.
A rough estimate I have
saedo — Wed, 10/13/2010 - 13:45A rough estimate I have Comet's Trail at 639 EP. Heroic Abom is at 600 EP. So probably better.
I have not done a raid yet as
Zevix — Wed, 10/13/2010 - 13:29I have not done a raid yet as mutilate, but I can say after a few heroics I have noticed a pretty nice boost in dps. Though this is based on my dps unbuffed at the target dummies and doing a few heroics. Keeping in mind that Mutilates burst has been buffed not sure if it matters in a long fight like a boss in ICC. So, as of right now I'm happy with where it is at. Will see tonight I guess.
For an FYI... Reports are
saedo — Wed, 10/13/2010 - 12:20For an FYI...
Reports are combat sucks. Though might not be as bad if rogues got used to the new mechanics.
Subtlety is broken. In that HAT is broken, resetting your combo points whenever other people crit.
Haven't heard any Mutilate complaints yet.