Were in a recession? WTF? When did this happen?

Havnt read the article yet...but honestly...the scare tactics  the media is using to draw in viewers (this time with the economy as opposed to the terrorism, 9/11)...not helping.

I agree people were living outside their means and that had to stop but  consumer confidence is shattered at the moment and worrying people regarding things that are outside their control is a bit counter-productive.

Do all of you really not even consider the spending of Trillions, with a T, of dollars yet to even be earned is the best thing for this country? I am some dumb bumkin, but I fail to see how the most obvious problem that we are now faced with can be ignored by all of you. Everyone is so in love with Obama, yet he is helping to dismantle this country piece by piece with the help of his teleprompters.

1) National Healthcare- seems like a great thing. Healthcare for all, rich and poor. Take a drive to your county hospital and tell me that people without insurance don't get treated. I have worked in emergency medical services, and can tell all of you that even illegal immigrants don't go without treatment. Just because they do not have the option to see a physician of their choice doesn't mean they don't see one at all. If I pay for personalized treatment, then what is the problem? I am paying for it. It is a privilege, not a right, to be seen by a doctor that I choose.

But let us take a look at National Healtcare and all the glorious failings that come along with it. Canada's very own healthcare system in Ontario sends patients requiring angioplasty to AMERICA for treatment. How about wait times you ask? Ontario has the best wait times in all of Canada. With just a short 15 week wait between seeing a general practitioner and actually recieving care. Really, what is 15 weeks right? But hey, need a consult from a specialist? That is only a 9 week wait. Cause nothing bad can happen in less than 9 weeks. Need that CT or MRI, just 4 weeks. These are the lowest averages over an entire country. Some are much worse.

England, who doesn't love merry old England? Wait time for adolescent healthcare, 18 weeks without any treatment during the wait time. With an urgent request from a physician, cancer patients only have to wait 62 days till treatment starts. Cancer is slow, it is ok. Here is a fun fact, most disabled children have to wait an average of 5 months before recieving a wheelchair. Outpaitent care, only a 15 week wait. No big deal right? In a village of 11,000 people, 4,000 of them have no access to a dentist because the other 7,000 are taking up all the room at the only office in town. But as an overall, residents in this fine country face a lottery on how much they are allowed to "spend" on their dentistry. How about cancer again. Would you believe me if I told you people are refused cancer treatment because it is not deemed cost effective? Boy jee whiz, hope my parents don't move there and start rocking some cancer. They might be to old to be deemed worthy of treatment.

Starting to see my point here? Universal healthcare is worthless as demonstrated by other countries. And don't think you do not have to pay for it, that the government will handle the bill. Where do you think the gov gets its cash? And I won't even get into the people that go into debt with student loans to become doctors that will be told you went from making this much down to this much. Do an extremely stressful job and get paid dick for it.

2) Spending. We are told that " The new America must be about financial temperance, not abstinence." Here is some temperance for you, Obama does not need 28 new Marine One helicopters. Twenty-eight. Really? We need to watch what we spend and be wiser, but 28 huh? Hey, if you want to mull over that little option, how about doing it over $100 a pound steaks. I mean, who in America doesn't deserve to use TAXPAYER money to buy expensive steak imported from Japan for a SuperBowl party? I know I do it at least once a week. But hey, while I may feel guilty for eating this cow, I will feel good for spending $30 million on some mice by San Francisco. The taxpayers are all for spending this "stimulus" money on mice. Or hey, even better, why not send $900 million to Palestine? I mean, Palestine is NOT Hamas, even though Hamas is part of Palestine's government. And wait, isn't Hamas an ENEMY of our ALLY? Eh, lets give em almost a billion dollars cause we have it to spare. While we ponder this, let us all go to a Historic Train Station!! Well, the station needs some work, how about $21 million to perk it up. The fact that it is in Biden's hometown doesn't mean anything. Need more? Or do you see my point?

3) Let us compare Reagan to Obama. Not really. I am not even going to touch this one cause they are polar opposites.

4) Bipartisanship. That means, because the Repubs didn't vote for the stimulus plan they are being partisan. They should vote for something they had no part in creating even if they don't agree with it, and what is more is when they want to change something, they should be voted down by the Dems on the amendments. I mean, the Dems are NOT being partisan at all. Right? Obama partisan? Say it isn't so!!! However, every single time someone questions him, he brings up how the American People Spoke!!! The six or so million votes he had over McCain isn't some landslide that is the American People. I dare someone to name one thing he has done that is Bipartisan. One.

5) The Great Depression gets tossed around with the New Deal a lot these days. The New Deal did not bring us out of the Great Depression. World War II did. The stimulus = New Deal style thinking with an even more RADICAL agenda tied in. Tell me I am wrong.

Just two more things before I end this. Personal things that I hate about our government and it's direction.

1) Radical agenda. Don't tell me there isn't one when money is given to La Raza. La Raza being associated with MEChA, an orginization that wants to kick anyone that is not a mestizo from the southwestern part of the U.S. and give that area to Mexico. ACRON is going to help with the Census. Now I know some of you that may get this far into my rant love Obama and everything Dem, but you don't think that is just a little wrong? What if they crazy, gun carrying, sister loving, Bible thumping Right did that? Would you not be at all upset?

2) Tax cheats in DC. Yea, a large amount of Obama appointees are all suffering from tax problems. Really? We are expected to pay our taxes but they aren't? The media and Obama tore Joe the Plumber apart for not paying $1,000 in taxes. But for some reason, it is ok that Obama's lackeys don't pay taxes.

So that is it. This is not really directed at any of you, this was over the article. Just thought I would give a small view of the apparent "minority" in the U.S. that didn't vote for "Change," and loves seeing things about how we need to watch our money better as Americans. Sorry for any spelling errors, I am trying to watch Casino Royale while I type this.

Side note, Please don't ever say the poor go to war and the rich kids stay home again Mori. I come from not a wealthy, but upper middleclass childhood, and 3 out of 5 brothers have all served in the Army. Me being one of them. One is in Iraq right now, the other has been, and even though I never like talking about it even to the point of lying and saying I never went, I was in Iraq also. And I grew up FAR from poor. I had an Lt. that was very well off, to the point that he bought apartment complexs outside of Ft. Hood to go with the real estate he owned all over New York, and he ate the same MREs as I did in the same goddamn sandbox. The "rich" kids aren't somehow exempt from joys of war.

I do not have Dufe's personal expertise on Economics, although I have taken a few economic courses myself. The first and biggest issue I will bring up however in this IS something I have knowledge in.

Lets rewind back to 1933. For those of you unfamiliar with this (please note here: US Laws/History basis for this argument) the Great Depression was in full swing, 25% unemployment, FDR has just been inagurated into office.

One of the very first pieces of legislation passed as FDR took office was the Banking Act of 1933 (also known as the Glass-Steagall Act). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_Act_of_1933

On top of creating the FDIC it also stated that Investment Companies, Banking Institution and Insurance Companies could not intermingle. That means a company was one of the three and COULD NOT be the other 2.

In 1999 This act was repealed by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. As a result of the act (this part is a direct link from the above wikipedia page) "The repeal enabled commercial lenders such as Citigroup, which was in 1999 then the largest U.S. bank by assets, to underwrite and trade instruments such as mortgage-backed securities and collateralized debt obligations and establish so-called structured investment vehicles, or SIVs, that bought those securities.^[15]"

Now although I agree with the rest of the conclusion that they post there, I will not post it here as it is subject to debate at the moment. It did however free up the stock future exploration on wallstreet.

Second Part: Regarding Mori and Spending Money

YES, we should save, I agree, however spending also needs to happen at the moment. It is a thorny issue since although we do want more savings, we need spending in general for jobs. Creating AND Losing jobs are both snowball type effects. The saying is that the average dollar that you spend somewhere is circulated back through the economy 8 times.

Example: I go to the grocery store, I buy a 1 dollar loaf of bread. Now although the company does have to make a profit on that loaf of bread that i bought, that dollar is also put towards parts of the paycheck for the cashier, and the stocker, the person who baked it, the people who made the packaging etc.

Now those 4 people in turn once they get their paycheck from other people also buying bread will then have to go buy things themselves. Bread, Milk etc.

So to a point, spending is required. Credit is also required as well. Most retail companies make MOST of their money during the months of November, December and January, but the stores stay open year round. Credit for these companies allows them to keep stores open, employees paid, etc.

So spending and credit are BOTH essential to the economy nowadays, both national and global. This is not to say that saving money is not important, however it is saying that we do NEED to spend so that we can try to get some jobs back. Hence the point of the stimulas package making jobs. Those jobs will in turn create more jobs due to those people buying essentials etc.

Also as far as saving, at the same time we need to INCREASE TAXES so that we can implement Nationalized Health Care. To many people I know have savings, however with the outrageous price of health care nowadays, it all vanishes at illness or serious injury.

And you can try to say, "Well if people just lived healthier than they wouldn't have to worry about it at all." Unfortunately that is not the case. I am a prime example, I am in reasonable shape, however I had 2 consecutive knee injuries that cost me my job and possible career (U.S. Marines) because my knees did not sit in the socket properly.

Anyway, I have already ranted way too much, as far as the Constitutionality of the Federal Reserve, that is a question best asked to Barack Obama (Former Constitutional Law Professor at the University of Chicago) or someone like my mother (Juris Doctorate who booked ConLaw in Law School).

Interesting Tidbit - "Booking" a class in law school gets you an award since you managed to finish a class with a perfect 4.0 GPA in said class. It's rather rare in ConLaw.

There's far too much misinformation in this thread for me to address with my current schedule.  There's fact in here too, but the bottom line is I'm going to steer clear this.  Just don't believe everything you've read here. That is all.